I have a leak at my pool filler.

[Kingmiwok]

Hi. I have a pool with an autofill, the style where it's uses a regular Fluidmaster toilet tank filler, installed under a cover, on the deck near the pool. Overall it's always worked well. I've replaced the filler 3 or 4 times over the years when it started leaking or acting up.

Several weeks ago our Flume water meter device detected a small leak in our house, and I determined it was coming from the filler. (The leak stopped when I turned off the water supply to the filler.) I replaced the filler device, and I'm still getting the leak (about 1-2 gallons an hour). You can even hear water leak sound if you put your ear down to the filler. So I figured I got a bad filler, and replaced it again, and it's still leaking. I tried a 3rd, and the same story. So it's not the filler device.

It seems the water is leaking past the filler, perhaps around the threaded-in filler part. I don't see a crack in the housing, but there may be one. I'm a bit at a loss on how to fix this without tearing out the entire thing and replacing it (i.e. destroying the decking, busting out cement, etc).

Anyone have any experience with this setup? Any advice? Can I seal the entire thing with epoxy or silicone and maybe get the leak that way? Thanks in advance for you input.
Glen

 

[ajw22]

Did you replace the valve with Fluidmaster toilet valves or the proper Pentair T29 or Poolmiser valves?

They are different. Read....

AutoFill - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Kingmiwok]

Did you replace the valve with Fluidmaster toilet valves or the proper Pentair T29 or Poolmiser valves?

They are different. Read....

AutoFill - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I installed the Fluidmaster, since that's what was there when I bought the house. (That's what I've always replaced them with. Whatever Lowes has had.) I read the links you sent. Seem like the only differences between the two is the pressure restrictor for eliminating water hammer (and the blocked off bowl fill) . It's interesting because I had a big water hammer problem with the filler 10+ years ago. I installed a hammer arrestor on the filler supply line, which helped some. Then later found out my house pressure regulator had failed and my house was at street pressure (over 100psi). After replacing the house regulator, and keeping the house pressure at 50psi, no more water hammer. So probably a combination of the two solved that problem.

Thanks for the reply but unfortunately that does not explain my current leak problem.

 

[proavia]

Plug the line between the pool and the autofill canister (Fluidmaster installed and water source on).

If the canister level continues to rise, there may be a crack in the fitting where the Fluidmaster attaches.
You may be able to patch it with pool epoxy or something similar.

If the canister level does not continue to rise, there is probably a leak external to the canister.
Chances are the fix will be more work and more expensive.

My autofill is manufacturer is A&A Manufacturing. They supply a small plastic washer that fits in the fitting the Fluidmaster screws into. That washer has a very small hole in it which minimizes the amount of flow into the autofill canister. With this washer, using a regular Fluidmaster toilet valve is fine - I've been doing it for years without issue.

 

[Kingmiwok]

Plug the line between the pool and the autofill canister (Fluidmaster installed and water source on).

If the canister level continues to rise, there may be a crack in the fitting where the Fluidmaster attaches.
You may be able to patch it with pool epoxy or something similar.

If the canister level does not continue to rise, there is probably a leak external to the canister.
Chances are the fix will be more work and more expensive.

My autofill is manufacturer is A&A Manufacturing. They supply a small plastic washer that fits in the fitting the Fluidmaster screws into. That washer has a very small hole in it which minimizes the amount of flow into the autofill canister. With this washer, using a regular Fluidmaster toilet valve is fine - I've been doing it for years without issue.

Thanks for the reply. Good point. I'm not sure the water is going in the canister/pool. I'll do that test tomorrow and find out.

 

[Kingmiwok]

Plug the line between the pool and the autofill canister (Fluidmaster installed and water source on).

If the canister level continues to rise, there may be a crack in the fitting where the Fluidmaster attaches.
You may be able to patch it with pool epoxy or something similar.

If the canister level does not continue to rise, there is probably a leak external to the canister.
Chances are the fix will be more work and more expensive.

My autofill is manufacturer is A&A Manufacturing. They supply a small plastic washer that fits in the fitting the Fluidmaster screws into. That washer has a very small hole in it which minimizes the amount of flow into the autofill canister. With this washer, using a regular Fluidmaster toilet valve is fine - I've been doing it for years without issue.

Darn, unfortunately the water did not rise. The leak is going into the ground. Maybe I can come up with something clever, like running a new line inside of the old line, and putting a different kind of valve on it.

 

[Geophffrey]

@Kingmiwok, how did you wind up fixing this? I have a leak right underneath the autofill device at the 90 degree PVC. Pool builders are saying I have to jackhammer up my decking to fix it. I’d prefer not to obviously. Thanks in advance.

 

[Kingmiwok]

@Kingmiwok, how did you wind up fixing this? I have a leak right underneath the autofill device at the 90 degree PVC. Pool builders are saying I have to jackhammer up my decking to fix it. I’d prefer not to obviously. Thanks in advance.

I ended up renting a cement saw and cutting out the section of deck between the auto fill and the water source. The leak was a cracked 1/2in PVC fitting. Fortunately I didn't have to go too far; about 5-6 ft. I cut on the grout lines, so I could pour a cement pad back in there, and put down new travertine tile and make it look good. (Didn't actually do that yet. I did a temporary fix with pavers, because I didn't initially trust the repair and was afraid it would leak again. And I didn't want to saw the cement again. It's been about 18 months, so I guess I can do it now.)

One alternate solution I considered... I have a water spigot over by the pool equipment. I thought I could plumb that water source into the pool filter line, with a remotely actuated valve in-line. Then I'd need to come up with some kind of float that would generate a signal for the in-line valve. I did not find a commercial solution, and I was not in a situation where I felt comfortable putting something like that together myself. So I went with the cement saw....

I believe the fitting cracked because they did not bury the PVC line properly under the cement. (You might notice they used gray PVC electrical conduit, not white irrigation pipe (!) when they built the pool. But that was not what failed.) The supply line should be a few inches below the cement pour, surrounded by sand, so it can shift around as needed. In my case, the line was right-up at the cement, with some parts of the line stuck to the cement. I corrected that when I put it back together.)

Here's a photo after I carried off the pieces I cut out and cleaned up a bit. It was a messy job, but it worked. The saw was about $100 for the day, and the diamond blade was another $100. If you look close at the elbow near the filler, you can see water squirting thru the crack.

Sorry, wish I had an easier-to-do answer for you.

 

[Geophffrey]

I ended up renting a cement saw and cutting out the section of deck between the auto fill and the water source. The leak was a cracked 1/2in PVC fitting. Fortunately I didn't have to go too far; about 5-6 ft. I cut on the grout lines, so I could pour a cement pad back in there, and put down new travertine tile and make it look good. (Didn't actually do that yet. I did a temporary fix with pavers, because I didn't initially trust the repair and was afraid it would leak again. And I didn't want to saw the cement again. It's been about 18 months, so I guess I can do it now.)

One alternate solution I considered... I have a water spigot over by the pool equipment. I thought I could plumb that water source into the pool filter line, with a remotely actuated valve in-line. Then I'd need to come up with some kind of float that would generate a signal for the in-line valve. I did not find a commercial solution, and I was not in a situation where I felt comfortable putting something like that together myself. So I went with the cement saw....

I believe the fitting cracked because they did not bury the PVC line properly under the cement. (You might notice they used gray PVC electrical conduit, not white irrigation pipe (!) when they built the pool. But that was not what failed.) The supply line should be a few inches below the cement pour, surrounded by sand, so it can shift around as needed. In my case, the line was right-up at the cement, with some parts of the line stuck to the cement. I corrected that when I put it back together.)

Here's a photo after I carried off the pieces I cut out and cleaned up a bit. It was a messy job, but it worked. The saw was about $100 for the day, and the diamond blade was another $100. If you look close at the elbow near the filler, you can see water squirting thru the crack.

Sorry, wish I had an easier-to-do answer for you.

View attachment 636376

Thank you so much for the reply. I think my line is right at the cement as well. I appreciate you taking the time to help me!