I am crying. Pool leaks and Filtration problems.

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sorry to hear about the dead animals, and no, you shouldn't see green stuff coming from the filter on start/stop.

Just to confirm, backwash includes
Pump Off | push down and rotate clockwise to 'backwash' | start pump and run about 2 minutes (until clear) | shut off pump | push down and rotate handle clockwise to 'rinse' | start pump running again for about 2 minutes (ish) | shut off pump | push down handle and rotate clockwise to 'filter' | resume normal pump schedule (24/7 during SLAM)

Yeh, almost always POP is critical :) pool owner patience

It's been too long since easy to see water chemistry... What's your CYA at? If it's high, have you done the diluted test per #9 in this: Pool School - CYA

While you're slamming, you can use a 5 ml sample size and 1 drop = 1 ppm FC

I'm a big believer in adjusting pH to 7.2 before a SLAM. You would have to take a break and let FC fall, or buy FC reducer from a pool store (usually sodium thiosulphate) or you can also use hydrogen peroxide if you know a good source for it. What was your pH before the SLAM started?
 
tangoshoes said:
I'm not as optimistic today. My chlorine levels should be around 25 right now. Holding off on a test because I'm running out of regents but I ordered a refill from tftestkits.
Click to expand...

Switch to using the 5mL sample, with each drop being 1ppm of FC. And then set your target 1-2ppm greater than SLAM level to compensate for testing error.

Should I dare utter the forbidden "f" word? Is it time for Flock?! Or am I just impatient lol? No idea if my sand filter even works properly. I've been guessing on backwash times as I just got the new pressure gauge installed yesterday. If it's working the pressure should just slowly go up until backwashed?
Click to expand...

The pressure should go up. It's very possible your sand needs a deep cleaning. I don't know how to accomplish this with it inside your equipment shed. I think once you drain the filter using a bucket to catch the initial water and then putting a hose up to it, you might be able to shop-vac the sand out of there and clean that way, but you'd have to be super careful not to damage those laterals - they are delicate. If there's nothing on the floor that can get damaged and no way to cause an electrical hazard, you could just deep clean it right there like the instructions say, and use either a submersible pump and/or a shop vac to keep the water out.

Either way, it's not time for floc. You still have primarily a chemistry problem. If you get to a point where you aren't losing FC, you pass OCLT, but the water is still cloudy and DE in the filter doesn't work, some members have had success with a bit of clarifier or floc at the very end of the SLAM. You're still too early for considering that. Have patience, it will clear up!

tangoshoes said:
.... So recently I've noticed a jet of green water coming from returns whenever the pump is turned off then back on. Is that normal to get a little backwash when turning off and on the pump? After a few seconds it runs clean.
Click to expand...

It's not exactly normal, but if your filter is having issues, like above, deep cleaning it should solve it. It could also be something like a biofilm, but either way good chemistry/filtering will fix it.

Found a few dead animals today with the leaf rake... Now the rake is full of even more holes. What could be causing that? My only guess can be branches in the pool but I haven't pulled any up yet.
Click to expand...

Well, it could be that dead body you imagined in your first post! :D That's not exactly normal, but it could be branches or else it gets caught on something. Until we can see, it's kind of unknown. Is that a new leaf rake, or old? If it's old, they can definitely start ripping after being in water/sun so many times.

Should I start thinking about pH? I know the Traditional SLAM says you should fix it before you start with the chlorine. Unfortunately I came here from another site that said shock first and pH later. I know the high chlorine levels can mess with your pH reading. So I might be locked in at the moment?
Click to expand...

If you didn't adjust before the initial SLAM, I'd go ahead and let FC drop to 10, measure and adjust pH. It could be way off, and could be damaging other things. Having it way out of whack could make the SLAM not work as well as it would. If it's super bad, maybe that's what's disintegrating your leaf rake! ;-)
 
tangoshoes,

I'm following your thread with great interest. I'm also managing a pool that is old and has some issues. I am updating equipment and doing leak detection right now. I do have sparkalicious TFP water...I just can't keep it all in the pool! I wanted to send some encouraging words...You Are Rocking This :rockon:... and I look forward to seeing more of your progress.

Crystal
 
Paul & Crystal said:
tangoshoes,

I'm following your thread with great interest. I'm also managing a pool that is old and has some issues. I am updating equipment and doing leak detection right now. I do have sparkalicious TFP water...I just can't keep it all in the pool! I wanted to send some encouraging words...You Are Rocking This :rockon:... and I look forward to seeing more of your progress.

Crystal
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Crystal! I have been trying to add as much info to this post as possible as I've found other threads to be very helpful... I hope this thread is just as helpful to someone : )
 
Here is the current situation. Sorry I had to take a few days off from posting but not from cleaning and maintaining the pool chemicals.

I was without testing regent for 1 days. Not Tftestkits.com issue just a simple USPS issue. Tftestkits was great in helping me when I emailed them about it. I after I got the test my numbers were well above SLAM for FC. I've been losing less chlorine but I think it might also because I found some chlorine tabs while cleaning up pool equipment. I used two floating dispensers and jammed as many tabs as would fit. I know that to stabilize chlorine for solid form they add cya. I'm not worried about that getting too high but I will be testing it this week. Between back washing and attempts at vacuuming I'm raising the pool level every few days.

When the pool rises again today (I have the water going) I'm going to backwash. My clean psi is 8 and I'm sitting at about 15 today. I'm still getting the green water from the returns every time the pump is turned off then back on. I have not been able to figure out how to get into the filter. I'm worried about breaking the plumbing. I'm attaching a picture of my sand filter head, maybe someone can instruct. The clear tube is obvious and the right side with the rings looks easy its the left side hard pipe I'm not really sure will come off or how. IMG_20170605_120450.jpg

Here is a comparison photo of the pool during the 6 days of SLAM. Day 0 (far left) before chlorine. Day 2 (second from left) before major cleaning of the bottom. Day 4 (second from right) Day after major cleaning. Day 6 (far right photo) after daily cleaning.
6 days of slam.jpg

We bought a pool blaster fusion to do some quick cleanings between vacuuming. I don't know if I would call it quicker... two strokes and it needs to be cleaned out. but it does get a lot of junk!
IMG_20170605_120241961.jpg

We are also using the leaf rake a lot ... so much in fact the first 1 I bought I broke with in 3 hours of purchase. I guess I wasn't expecting there to be boulders in the pool... 7" + rocks 2 of them. I think they were using them to keep the cover on over the winter. How they ended up in the pool I'll never understand.

As for PH. I did not take a PH test before starting the SLAM. I did come here from another site with different instructions. I have now educated myself for the future. My FC is sitting at 15.5 right now so I'm letting it slowly come down to do a test.

Thanks again for all the info everyone! P.S. the new rakes did not get holes in them lol. It must of been an old rake. But I am going to complain on Amazon about my Leaf Master it has a TON of holes in the bag and is only 2 weeks old. No branches have been recovered as of yet.
 
This is excellent progress! It's always most difficult when you don't/can't really know what's lurking under the water. My guess is the leaf rake is old and in something of a dry-rot situation. They don't last many seasons, even stored indoors. Too much in/out of water combined with heat and sun. Leaf Master that's new shouldn't have that many issues, so I'd definitely complain. Unless you find some really gnarly branches below.

To deep clean the filter you'll need to remove that entire upper assembly. Clear hose should be straightforward, and unions on the right side make it ok. The left side will have to be cut and re-glued, but I'd install unions this time to repair it. The problem is it looks like it's already been cut once and there's no clear place to cut it and still leave enough room to glue the new unions on. Maybe someone better at plumbing has some tips on what to do in this situation. Maybe a heat gun would help loosen up the existing connection enough to remove it, but I'm not sure if a heat gun that close to the valve assembly is a good idea.
 
Just did a successful vacuum~! It seems that the only way to remove the pine needles in mass is to vacuum. Unfortunately this puts a lot of strain on the pump because I can't tell when the filter basket is full when I'm by myself. Got a ton of white junk/sediment I'm assuming dead algae!

Decided to do a few tests.

FC: 13.5
CYA: between 30-50 (I'm not that great on this test but I might take some water to the pool store so I can get a baseline)
pH: 7.4-7.6 (again not that great at this test)

I decided to do the pH with the FC at 13.5 because the CYA was looking higher than I first thought so I want to bump my FC level to match the SLAM level of CYA 50 just in case it is on the high end now. Going to add some chlorine to bring it up to 20.

I think because my pH wasn't too crazy I should be good... although I'm not sure how the high FC would effect it... up or down?
 
tangoshoes said:
Just did a successful vacuum~! It seems that the only way to remove the pine needles in mass is to vacuum. Unfortunately this puts a lot of strain on the pump because I can't tell when the filter basket is full when I'm by myself. Got a ton of white junk/sediment I'm assuming dead algae!

Decided to do a few tests.

FC: 13.5
CYA: between 30-50 (I'm not that great on this test but I might take some water to the pool store so I can get a baseline)
pH: 7.4-7.6 (again not that great at this test)

I decided to do the pH with the FC at 13.5 because the CYA was looking higher than I first thought so I want to bump my FC level to match the SLAM level of CYA 50 just in case it is on the high end now. Going to add some chlorine to bring it up to 20.

I think because my pH wasn't too crazy I should be good... although I'm not sure how the high FC would effect it... up or down?
Click to expand...

As subjective as you think the kit CYA test is, your home test will still be much more accurate than the pool store. Think of it this way - most pool stores use titration/strips based equipment. If there was a decent titration test for CYA, we would all be using that. K-2006 (and thus TF-100) are top of the line test kits for the home consumer level. If there were a more accurate test for CYA than the one they currently include, they would include it instead. So whatever the pool store is using is certainly more inaccurate, especially combined with poorly trained employees and uncalibrated test equipment.

pH typically reads a bit high with higher FC. Yours is probably fine, then. Since you're still having to refill some, it will basically take on the effects of your fill water over time, plus some rise due to aeration from the cleaning you're doing. As long as your fill water isn't really acidic you should be ok.

And yes, if you think CYA is really 50, dose FC accordingly. The test value will probably change through the SLAM due to refills and the fact the test works better on clear water. Test again each 5-7 days just to make sure. But the more you keep FC above the proper SLAM level, the faster this goes. So I'd dose for 50 right now.

White junk is probably dead algae, and hopefully not sand! There was one other SLAM thread where the guy had sand blowing back into the pool and it was a huge mess. It should be easy to discern whether sand or other crud, though. Just a warning so you can look closely to make sure, since that will affect our recommendations for sure! Usually that indicates wrong sand type or broken laterals though, which I think you would have noticed the effects of by now.
 
Great posts from drharris who's covered all the bases really well. Good to hear about your progress, Tango.

As far as getting the multiport valve (MPV) off, here's how that can be done. Be sure the power is off just so the pump can't inadvertently turn on at the wrong moment!

On the right is a repair coupling, which you loosen and slide to the right
On the top left is a flex hose, pretty straightforward
On the bottom left for the hard plumbing, you can first see if there's enough flexibility in the riser pipe coming up to it. You may be able to slide the MPV sideways out of the way after you remove the collar clamp at the bottom of the MPV. If not, cut the pipe on the left edge of the existing glued coupling, then lift the valve off. The stub of pipe can be unscrewed from the multiport, and those parts replaced.
 
drharris said:
White junk is probably dead algae, and hopefully not sand! There was one other SLAM thread where the guy had sand blowing back into the pool and it was a huge mess. It should be easy to discern whether sand or other crud, though. Just a warning so you can look closely to make sure, since that will affect our recommendations for sure! Usually that indicates wrong sand type or broken laterals though, which I think you would have noticed the effects of by now.
Click to expand...

I have grave news :( I think it is sand... the backwash is over a fence. I have to go in another door and open a garage door to get to it. I wen out to take a peek and rub some between my fingers. I'm pretty sure it's sand... and it's everywhere! Whats the process for fixing this? Open filter head (thinking about removing the chlorinater when I do this... it seems useless. I can also fix a leak) remove water and sand, ( I have a shop vac) replace lateral? *sigh* things were going too smoothly for sure!

IMG_20170605_202648347.jpg
IMG_20170605_202642889.jpg
There is a lot more piles than just this one from two vacuum sessions.

Thank you DrHarris!
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You can reuse your old sand if you wish, and you will need to buy some replacement sand for what was lost. When you get a chance to open the filter you can see how much sand you have left. The sand should fill the filter body about 3/4 full. When you put the sand back in be sure to cover the top of the stand pipe with a disposable cup to prevent sand from accidentally getting in there.
 
Oh no! I was worried that might be the case! I think you have a good handle on where to go next, so good luck! I think after all this you are going to be one of our resident experts in pretty much all aspects of getting an old pool in shape. :) but yes, you can reuse any sand (might as well clean it first though) and make sure the filter has the proper amount when the new lateral assembly is in. You're handling this super well; keep up the good work!
 
Yeh no kidding, great post - tango is handling this all amazingly well.

The sand is a pain to get rid anyway so better to reuse it. You can put new stuff in first and the old stuff second if it's got a few imperfections in it, but yeh drharris is right, just wash it in a barrow and re-use it. Abandon the really dirty stuff and you'll be fine.
 
Alright.. here it is! I hope to god I did all this right... installed the new pump, put in the new lateral assembly, cleaned, painted, caulked, and filled the pit with rocks lol. I had the pump off for exactly 24 hours. Seems to be leak free as of now. Pump smells funny but I can hold my hand on it for 10+ seconds. Smells hot and melty. Backwashed for a good 15min with the new sand in there. Primed and started pump. Sorry I didn't take a picture of the actual pool today... looks about the same as the last picture. I picked up some DE though... Thinking about trying that out once I'm sure the new pump is running well.

pool update.jpg
 
Wow! That looks great! If you ever need some supplemental cash you're probably expert enough at this point to get paid to fix other people's pool equipment issues! :)

New pump smell is probably just various solvents or whatever burning off. As long as you can touch it for awhile and it's maintaining a prime you should be ok, but keep an eye on it just in case.

I'd wait at least a day or two before using DE to allow the sand itself time to settle properly and filter out what it can first. Once you give the sand a fair shot at it, DE might help finish it off.

If you ever get discouraged in this, just realize you would have probably spent over a thousand bucks extra at this point if a pool guy had done all the work you have, with a lot less attention given to everything. And now you understand things so much better, saving you money in the future.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply