I have a 14,000 gal pool with a Pentair 3HP IntelliFlo VS Pump 011018. I cannot find technical information on the hydraulic efficiency of the pump impellor versus flow (Efficiency vs Flow). Does anyone have these data?
Hydraulic Efficiency versus Flow
- Thread starter PapaInLutz
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 66,140
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Welcome to TFP.
Why are you care about that technical information?
Pentair used to have flow information about that pump on their website but the pump is now obsolete and Pentair seems to remove non-current product information.
@mas985 may have answers if you can be more specific in what you are trying to do?
Why are you care about that technical information?
Pentair used to have flow information about that pump on their website but the pump is now obsolete and Pentair seems to remove non-current product information.
@mas985 may have answers if you can be more specific in what you are trying to do?
- May 3, 2007
- 18,112
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Generally the industry uses one of two different definitions of efficiency for pool pumps:
1) Power efficiency = Hydraulic power / Electrical power. Sometimes called wire to water efficiency. But to me, this one is not all that useful because hydraulic power is a function of both flow rate and pressure but flow rate is really the only thing that does the work in the pool system.
2) Energy factor (EF) = GPM * 60 / Watts, this one is a little more useful as it only considers only flow rate and not pressure. However, pumps are often rated/marketed by a weighted energy factor (WEF) which has several flaws and can lead to choosing an inferior pump (i.e. highest WEF is not always the most efficient choice).
In terms of energy factor, the most efficient RPM setting is generally around 1000 RPM and doesn't change much around that value. But that may not be the best RPM to use as it might not generate enough flow rate for the skimmers to work properly. That is more important than the pump efficiency since if the skimmers are not working properly, you are basically wasting run time and energy.
But either way, these definitions are dependent on the pool plumbing head curve which is unique to your own pool. So it isn't a simple answer. I can give you efficiencies of typical pool plumbing or we can get into the weeds and try and determine the plumbing curve for your particular system.
But as Allen asked, what are you trying to do with this information? This can help determine the most efficient path to take.
1) Power efficiency = Hydraulic power / Electrical power. Sometimes called wire to water efficiency. But to me, this one is not all that useful because hydraulic power is a function of both flow rate and pressure but flow rate is really the only thing that does the work in the pool system.
2) Energy factor (EF) = GPM * 60 / Watts, this one is a little more useful as it only considers only flow rate and not pressure. However, pumps are often rated/marketed by a weighted energy factor (WEF) which has several flaws and can lead to choosing an inferior pump (i.e. highest WEF is not always the most efficient choice).
In terms of energy factor, the most efficient RPM setting is generally around 1000 RPM and doesn't change much around that value. But that may not be the best RPM to use as it might not generate enough flow rate for the skimmers to work properly. That is more important than the pump efficiency since if the skimmers are not working properly, you are basically wasting run time and energy.
But either way, these definitions are dependent on the pool plumbing head curve which is unique to your own pool. So it isn't a simple answer. I can give you efficiencies of typical pool plumbing or we can get into the weeds and try and determine the plumbing curve for your particular system.
But as Allen asked, what are you trying to do with this information? This can help determine the most efficient path to take.
Basically, the most efficient way to operate is to run as slowly as possible while still providing the flow necessary to do a specific purpose.
For example, flow to make the skimmers skim.
Flow to make the SWG work by triggering the flow switch.
Flow to meet the heater requirements at about 10 gpm per 100,000 btu.
Thank you ajw22 for your comment. I have the Pentair VS 011018 pump installed, and I am hydraulic modeling my pool system. Having the relationship between efficiency and pump flow at a given speed is helpful in checking assumed parameters and calibrating the model. I have pressure gauges on the suction and discharge sides of the pump as well as on various locations on the piping.
By the way, I asked Pentair support directly for this information before the model was discontinued and received no answer.
Thank you mas985 for your information. As I replied to another commentor, I am modeling my system using the EPANET hydraulic model. I am trying to confirm some of the assumed parameters and also poking into operations to select the most efficient mode while meeting the demands of the pool, like the skimmer as you note and sprays. For example, I am recording the keypad displayed "watts" for various pump speeds and pool configurations, such as open and closed skimmer valve. I can then assume pump hydraulic efficiency and electrical motor efficiency to calculate pump TDH and as a result pump horsepower and power consumption (watts) to compare to the keypad reading. I adjusted assumed efficiency to get a match with the data, but I would rather have manufacturer's efficiency data to start with. Much of this is a form of entertainment for me. Please see attached example of some of my calculations. Thanks again. Looks like some on this forum respect
your knowledge and appreciate your contributions. --JimThe flow you need to do a specific task is whatever it is and knowing the efficiency of the pump is not going to change the amount of flow you need.
You can measure the volts and amps going to the pump to figure out the power to confirm with the pump display.
You can measure the power factor to get a more accurate power reading.
You can measure the volts and amps going to the pump to figure out the power to confirm with the pump display.
You can measure the power factor to get a more accurate power reading.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,112
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Manufactures no longer publish efficiency data other than WEF. They used to publish pump measurements based upon three plumbing curves (A,B,C) but no longer do that and have replaced that with WEF.
I am not sure this helps but I have a fairly comprehensive hydraulic model (spreadsheet) in my signature that models both the pump and the plumbing to various levels depending on the information available. Unlike EPANET, my model is designed specifically for pool plumbing and pool pumps. There is a fairly large database of pumps available including all variants of the Intelliflo line from older pump measurements that Energy Star had on their web site. It has been used on dozens of pool setups with fairly good accuracy but it is dependent on measurement data accuracy.
I am not sure this helps but I have a fairly comprehensive hydraulic model (spreadsheet) in my signature that models both the pump and the plumbing to various levels depending on the information available. Unlike EPANET, my model is designed specifically for pool plumbing and pool pumps. There is a fairly large database of pumps available including all variants of the Intelliflo line from older pump measurements that Energy Star had on their web site. It has been used on dozens of pool setups with fairly good accuracy but it is dependent on measurement data accuracy.
Thanks. Very good information. For me, as I mentioned, much of this is entertaining to nail down the model. AS you say, you can determine the flow you need without knowing the efficiency. But this requires you to depend on the accuracy of published pump curves, which likely are somewhat different in the field. I find it interesting to try and check these curves. Thanks again for your response.
You can install a flow meter if you just like getting more data.
Maybe get two or more different flow meters to get more accuracy.
Maybe get two or more different flow meters to get more accuracy.
You have a lot of useful information there, it will take a little while to wade through. I do not know if you are familiar with EPANET, but it is a generic model used in the water industry that models pumps, reservoirs, tanks, piping, etc. I put in all my pool piping, DE filter, valves, pump as variable speed, etc. I have a flow meter in the check valve assembly, but these meters are not that accurate. Again, thanks for your responses. - Jim
- May 3, 2007
- 18,112
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
The check valve variety are usually within about 2% of full scale and one of the more accurate types of meters. No measurements will be better than that including the internal Intelliflo flow rate calculation which is not very accurate at all. Blue White meters are the worst.
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