How would you address a decking with an unexpected slope

[jsradcliffe]

Hello again! We are in the process of building a new pool. Our back yard is sloped downward by 2ft. and was under the impression that what the pool designers designed would account for that slope. We were told that the decking would a slight downward slope of about four to six inches but this is excessive to us. Not even the plans or elevations picture this or show a slope and now it appears to need a retaining wall that we are not willing to pay for because we did not expect or want that type of dropoff. I have a feeling they did not put the pool down far enough after coming to the conclusion that a 14' downward dig at the front of the yard where a retaining wall would take care of the slope at the back of the pool, or it appears they weren't considering the slope after the decking was finished. I have attached photos for you to see what I mean.

We had the project manager out last Friday and he seemed perplexed and didn't have an answer for us. The person who designed the pool was out of town at the time. But from what we could gather, the project manager didn't even foresee this type of slope. We have requested a meeting to address it and for it to be corrected, but we seem to be getting the runaround now with appointments, etc.

How would you handle this? We are highly disappointed about this, and we are looking for a professional way to handle this.

Thank you in advance for your help and suggestions. https://photos.app.goo.gl/rLRB1zE6yL4fEB129

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iGpEREoNZhNHjRNc7

 

[ajw22]

You have decking on two sides of your pool. How were you intending to landscape the other two sides of the pool?

I think the PB will say that the scope of his work did not include any landscaping or decking of those areas. Was that ever discussed with him?

 

[jsradcliffe]

Sorry! Should've been more clear. We knew that we are responsible for landscaping and have already planned for it. What we didn't plan for was the slope from the rear curve of the patio. The pool was supposed to be placed lower into the ground to avoid a retaining wall at the back of the pool and anywhere around the decking. This is why they dug down 14" inches at the front of the yard was to avoid a retaining wall at the rear and patio. We feel like they took all the dirt away that they were supposed to use to level that part of the yard where the drop off is in order to avoid the drop-off.

 

[jsradcliffe]

That decking is the only decking area we were to have as per the contract.

 

[ajw22]

We feel like they took all the dirt away that they were supposed to use to level that part of the yard where the drop off is in order to avoid the drop-off.

That is what you should discuss with the PB. Do you have anything in writing that leveling that part of the yard was within the scope of their work? How far back from the pool were you expecting level ground?

My sense is they may owe you the fill dirt for that area.

It is hard to tell from the pics if just dirt laid in that area will hold. It looks like your ground slopes down to a creek in that area. You may need a retaining wall somewhere along there to keep the fill from washing down. To the PB that wall was outside of the scope of his work although it would have been nice if he would have mentioned it.

What they may be saying is they didn't drop the fill in that area because you didn't have a retaining wall to hold it.

 

[jtburf]

Retaining wall and back fill so slope is less than 1".

Only need the inch for drainage.

John

 

[jimmythegreek]

Hard to tell from the pics but looks like pool was put on grade with the stair area. If so that's ok but they should have shot grade and had an idea of what was gonna happen to the slope. At the least it's cheaper to build 1 retaining wall higher and build up the site to accommodate that elevation. Looks like you now need one in front and behind which is much more and bad planning. Anybody doing excavating/pool work saw this a mile away and said nothing if this was a surprise

 

[tampatommy]

So two things jump out at me. The pool appears level. Decking is supposed to have about 1/8" to 1/4" of pitch per foot to run water away from the pool. I understand that you do not want much of a drop off of the deck. You should be able to have them just bring back some dirt to level it out. My big concern is that over time, the back will start to erode toward the pond in the back yard. It may not be quick but over years, if you get rain regularly, you may start to see some erosion to where a retaining wall probably would have been a good thing.

Start with talking to the builder and see what solutions he suggests. I see nothing wrong with adding fill dirt around the decking to level everything off.

 

[bmoreswim]

I’m gonna be the contrarian here. I get that you don’t like the current state. I’d focus on what the end state is going to be or can be. No sense in diving into the woulda coulda shoulda’s. That ship has sailed.

Our site has a major slope. We have an upper wall and no lower wall. Three is zero need for a lower wall you just need a LOT of topsoil to grade in our gently and attractively. The resulting slope can easily be grass or landscapes with no erosion. The only water that is going to hit it is the water off of the deck and what actually falls in that area. Neither of which will cause erosion if it’s either grass or mulched and properly planted.

Our much steeper slope has zero erosion and it has no grass. I really do understand why you aren’t happy, but it is what it is. Grade it out and get the PB to pay for it. I think that’s your best case. I’m sure some will say you need a wall, but you don’t need one. Could you build a nice functional one, yes. But someone’s gonna pay, and I doubt the PB will.

 

[jsradcliffe]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies and suggestions. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my post. All of the suggestions are great. We are trying to get the pool builder out here on Friday to discuss a solution. I'm not wanting to be difficult with the PB. But, like Jimmythegreek the said, "Anybody doing excavating/pool work saw this a mile away and said nothing." But, I hired one of the top pool companies in Charleston so I wouldn't have to worry about things like this. They are the experts, not me. continuing in my next reply.

 

[jsradcliffe]

,Before the slope was addressed. What makes us really mad is that the pool was originally 13 x 27 at the cost of $53,460 and the contract signed. After the contract was signed, the PB then began to address the slope. This is where started to go downhill. The PB says "FYI we will be stopping by today around 1:00. You don’t need to be there; just want to check elevations on the back side."

"We did stop by yesterday, and the decking at the lowest point will be about 20” above grade. That being said, we will need to install a short wall around the exterior perimeter of the deck up to the porch landing. This would be with one step down at 7” at the pool. Would you like to meet to review that so it makes sense? If you would like for us to look at it from the pricing perspective we can. We would also need compacted fill to raise the deck above existing grade." "I did shorten the pool by 1’ in this drawing to 26’ in length. Let me know what you think and let’s set up a time to meet again.

My wife says, "This option may just work. We see the 27 dimension changed to 26 and assume the other side shortened too. Can you send all dimensions and let's do a final sign off after a quick site review one last time
I also assume this keeps the pool and decking at a level where we don't have to build any retaining walls."

PB: Teresa, More dimensions on the attached. This would keep the deck at the lower level.
Let me know if this all makes sense and let’s set up another quick meeting.

Now, for the kicker, the pool goes from 13 x 27 (323sf) to 13 x 26 (314) with no credit given, but before we had a chance to ask about the credit for difference in size, the PB comes back and says we'll have to add retaining wall at the front of the pool for a cost of $7,000. When my wife did ask, the PB says, I didn't do a credit, but we can do the retaining wall up front for $3,500. We are still requesting a detailed credit and have yet to get it.

My wife sends this email today:
Hey, good morning. We wanted to talk through a small handful of items this week. These are the things keeping us up at night.
Paver wall:
Can I get status on the paver wall, please? Feels like we stalled out. Pete said we would have paver wall Friday. Pete, did the product show up?

Unexpected drop off:
Also, Jeff and I want to discuss the solutions for the back side drop off from the pavers. We had no idea it would be this extreme. We cannot Slope grass back there with that severe of a grade. The upper wall was supposed to resolve the majority of this.

Measurements
Jeff measured the pool and it's short by a few inches. 8 inches 25.10 and 12.10, 19.10.

1-foot reduction:
We need a credit memo on the 1-foot reduction. Anything that has us paying more is a clear credit memo. I cannot recall what offset this change.
Thanks! I'm back in town now and can be available.
Teresa and jeff.

PB Reply:
Teresa,
Pete will have to chime in on the paver delivery.
The only time I believe I can meet this week would be Friday afternoon if Pete can.
Should we postpone the pool completion until we figure all of this out? I’m concerned that we may have a conflict with the plaster.

Now, they started excavation on 1/14/2019 and here it is 4/4/2019, and there have been five full weeks that no has been here working on the pull, and it wasn't anything to do with weather.

My reply tonight (My wife didn't like that I sent it, but I'm not sure why) I feel like we are getting the runaround:
Clint,
Delaying the plaster shoot date so the other items can be addressed doesn't make any sense.
Is this what you're suggesting in regards to your concerns with the plaster?
There have been five full weeks since this project was started that there hasn't been any work done or anyone here working on it.
Delaying the pool install any longer than it already has been shouldn't even be an option.
We would appreciate it if you and Pete find a way to make yourself available on Friday to address the slope off the decking rear side, so the project gets moving again and finished.

Thank you

My question to you professionals, is this typical protocol in the Pool Business? I expected a little better service for the price we are paying especially since we are paying more for less pool according to my calculations.

Please let me know if you have ever dealt with something like this or how you may approach it when dealing with it. We want our pool finished so our boys can swim this spring and summer.

Thank you for reading and your replies.

Jeff

 

[jimmythegreek]

Ill tell you what happens with contractors when they are busy.....they wanna do the easy work they can complete and get paid on asap and the harder projects/clients get stalled out a little. It sucks but its kinda the way it works. I know you feel like you paid alot but there are a few ppl just like you waiting in line with 50k+ checks trying to get their pool too. And thats likely the angle the PB is playing with you right now. You are 100% in the right with this situation, but they are never going to eat the cost of the wall. It would be a miracle if they did and would make them super builders. To keep moving your gonna have to add something to the pot, the material cost at the least. I know its not what you wanna hear, and not what you should have to do, but its my opinion thats whats gonna get you moving again.

 

[jsradcliffe]

Thanks for the advice. I understand. In the end, I'll forget about it eventually. I would rather be drinking a cold Stella than killing myself over the size and a wall.

But, wouldn't you agree that I need to be credited for the 1 ft that we shortened the pool? Our long side went from 27ft to 26ft. Here is what I figured out. The original pool was 13x27 (323sf) or $165.51 per sqft at a total cost of $53,460. We are getting the same pool but now at 13x26 (314sf) or $170.25 per sqft at the same contracted price of $53,460. Nothing else changed. But now I am paying $170.25 for 314 sf of the pool area. I'm spending more on less pool. It should be less money for less pool. Right? If I did my calculation corrected solely off the price per sf cost, I should be receiving approximately $1,500 credit.
I may have run my numbers wrong because its a pool calculation but I don't have to be rocket scientists to know I should be getting a credit. How would you address this? We are meeting them tomorrow at 1 PM. Oh, and I learned today that the pool designer or builder is the vice president and his dad is the owner of the pool company. Now it's all coming together. He doesn't have anything to lose for not giving a Crud. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

 

[jtburf]

If your contract was altered by 1 party and not agreed to by the other party you have a breach.

One word, Lawyer, make sure you have one present and they are introduced. the last thing you want is the PB filing a lein!!!


John

 

[jsradcliffe]

Ill tell you what happens with contractors when they are busy.....they wanna do the easy work they can complete and get paid on asap and the harder projects/clients get stalled out a little. It sucks but its kinda the way it works. I know you feel like you paid alot but there are a few ppl just like you waiting in line with 50k+ checks trying to get their pool too. And thats likely the angle the PB is playing with you right now. You are 100% in the right with this situation, but they are never going to eat the cost of the wall. It would be a miracle if they did and would make them super builders. To keep moving your gonna have to add something to the pot, the material cost at the least. I know its not what you wanna hear, and not what you should have to do, but its my opinion thats whats gonna get you moving again.

Thanks for the advice. I understand. In the end, I'll forget about it eventually. I would rather be drinking a cold Stella than killing myself over the size and a wall.

But, wouldn't you agree that I need to be credited for the 1 ft that we shortened the pool? Our long side went from 27ft to 26ft. Here is what I figured out. The original pool was 13x27 (323sf) or $165.51 per sqft at a total cost of $53,460. We are getting the same pool but now at 13x26 (314sf) or $170.25 per sqft at the same contracted price of $53,460. Nothing else changed. But now I am paying $170.25 for 314 sf of the pool area. I'm spending more on less pool. It should be less money for less pool. Right? If I did my calculation corrected solely off the price per sf cost, I should be receiving approximately $1,500 credit.
I may have run my numbers wrong because its a pool calculation but I don't have to be rocket scientists to know I should be getting a credit. How would you address this? We are meeting them tomorrow at 1 PM. Oh, and I learned today that the pool designer or builder is the vice president and his dad is the owner of the pool company. Now it's all coming together. He doesn't have anything to lose for not giving a ****. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you,