How to tweak my chemistry from here

[ajup2it]

Hi all. So this is my second test of the "season". Up to this point, my first test upon pool opening wasn't bad. It was actually warm that day. Then it dropped off into the 50's until today. Crazy year, crazy weather. Anyway, I had turned my SWG up a bit to get the FC a little higher for a SLAM. Seems that worked overly well so now its high and my best laid plans for allowing the pool to breathe is thwarted by rain. So I've turned my SWG down for now and will test FC daily. Everything except my salt is high. I added MA to my pool today to get the pH down and also to lower the TA. My goal would be to get everything where it needs to be before the weather is consistently hot. I was also considering Borates this year. I don't have concerns with pets in my pool or drinking the water.

So from what you see, clearly I need more salt. What else do you experts recommend? Your help is greatly appreciated. The weather here, while rainy, is finally seeing consistent temps above 65 degrees and into the mid 70's. Finally!

 

[Mdragger88]

The ph test is inaccurate at fc levels above 10ppm. So don’t add anymore acid. What does the water look like? Was that 9ppm fc an opening # before any additions (including swg) ? The cya is high - are u using pucks or anything containing stabilizer?

 

[ajup2it]

The ph test is inaccurate at fc levels above 10ppm. So don’t add anymore acid. What does the water look like? Was that 9ppm fc an opening # before any additions (including swg) ? The cya is high - are u using pucks or anything containing stabilizer?

Ah ok. The water is pretty clear. I did a backwash and rinse and it clouded up a little but I did see a bit of sediment in the bottom of my pool that looks like small rock/sand. I don't use pucks nor do I know what that is. Nothing has been added until today. Upon pool opening, I did not let the pool company add anything. Quite honestly, the day of opening it was a balmy 40 degrees so testing anything would have been questionable. For my pool, historically, CYA tends to be 90-100, Calcium is always high since we have hard water, pH is a challenge to keep at 7.4 (MA is my friend), and TA seems NOT to want to get lower than 100.

 

[Mdragger88]

Pucks are stabilized chlorine tablets lol ? I don’t see a need for slam at this point & would just proceed to getting other #s dialed in - to be safe u could do an oclt if u want Overnight Chlorine Loss Test - that cya above 90 has me nervous though- if it were my pool i’d back it down a bit to like 80 with a 20% drain- u can always add more later but 100 is asking for problems. Mine’s @ 60 now & no problems with my swg keeping up- i’ll probably go up to 80 in the swampy heat of the summer. You’re swg seems like it keeps up easily with your pool volume. If you don’t plan to do any draining to remove cya then u can just top off salt (add 1/2 of what it calls for & retest in a day or so) & let fc drop to 10 & recheck ph & lower it to 7 or 7.1 with MA to lower ta then aerate to bring ph back to 7.6 or 7.8 & drop it again- repeat until ta is where u want it. This can take weeks for some. Do not introduce borates until ta is where u want it! I have found with mine ta drops by about 5 every time i do this. When i started trying to adjust it it wouldn’t move at all then i read a thread here that suggested a bigger drop than 7.2 & letting it rise to 7.8 before dropping again & it really helped. I have a fountain i use to aerate - that’s the part that takes the time. When ta is where u want it & you’ve aerated back to the ph u desire then u can check out the borates here So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

 

[ajup2it]

Pucks are stabilized chlorine tablets lol ? I don’t see a need for slam at this point & would just proceed to getting other #s dialed in - to be safe u could do an oclt if u want Overnight Chlorine Loss Test - that cya above 90 has me nervous though- if it were my pool i’d back it down a bit to like 80 with a 20% drain- u can always add more later but 100 is asking for problems. Mine’s @ 60 now & no problems with my swg keeping up- i’ll probably go up to 80 in the swampy heat of the summer. You’re swg seems like it keeps up easily with your pool volume. If you don’t plan to do any draining to remove cya then u can just top off salt (add 1/2 of what it calls for & retest in a day or so) & let fc drop to 10 & recheck ph & lower it to 7 or 7.1 with MA to lower ta then aerate to bring ph back to 7.6 or 7.8 & drop it again- repeat until ta is where u want it. This can take weeks for some. Do not introduce borates until ta is where u want it! I have found with mine ta drops by about 5 every time i do this. When i started trying to adjust it it wouldn’t move at all then i read a thread here that suggested a bigger drop than 7.2 & letting it rise to 7.8 before dropping again & it really helped. I have a fountain i use to aerate - that’s the part that takes the time. When ta is where u want it & you’ve aerated back to the ph u desire then u can check out the borates herehttps://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/so-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-why-and-how.4655/page-19

Thank you for all this info. Pardon my ignorance but can you help me understand what a CYA of 100 or higher can cause? I'm a computer geek, and not the swiftest at chemistry. The learning curve for me is steep.

Ok so to recap, get my pH, TA, CYA where I want it by doing the drain/refill/MA/Aeration thingy...speaking of aeration can I just point the jets upwards to bubble the water that way? I don't have an aerator or water feature per se. Then consider borates once I have the right numbers. If I understood you right, you said adding borates drops your TA? So if I want my TA to be 80, for example, adding borates would make it lower? So that would actually help me a little with a TA of 120, but not much. haha! Just trying to wrap my head around all of this. I'm going to feel like a mad scientist once I understand all of this.

My salt does seem low. Other than going to a pool store, could I use Home Depot or one of them for salt?

 

[Mdragger88]

Adding borates doesn’t drop anything it buffers your ph & ta & makes it harder to move - that’s why I suggest u wait until u get them where u want. As for cya understanding this may help
Mortons or diamond pool salt from walmart, hd, or lowes is fine

 

[ajup2it]

Adding borates doesn’t drop anything it buffers your ph & ta & makes it harder to move - that’s why I suggest u wait until u get them where u want. As for cya understanding this may help
Mortons or diamond pool salt from walmart, hd, or lowes is fine

Oh, ok! Thank you again for your help!! I really appreciate it.

 

[Mdragger88]

& Yes to aerate you can point your jets up ??

 

[ajup2it]

& Yes to aerate you can point your jets up ??

Excellent!!

 

[ajup2it]

Hi again. So my FC is coming down slowly, very slowly. I have my swg at 0% right now and its still at 14. Of course its been cool and rainy so I don't have the sun beating on it to bring it down. Is there anything else I can do to bring it down?

A few other questions. Should I wait until I get FC down before beginning to work on TA? Or can I also work on that now too? My goal is to add borates.

Lastly, CYA testing is making me crazy. I've tried different lighting, the glance method, etc. So I feel like it might be at 80 but maybe its also at 90 and either way, both are likely still too high to add borates, right?

 

[mknauss]

There is no real reason to do anything. The FC is fine, it will come down but you are well below SLAM level so can swim.
The TA is no big deal it will come down over time as you keep the pH in the 7's.

Why are you pushing to add borates?

 

[ajup2it]

There is no real reason to do anything. The FC is fine, it will come down but you are well below SLAM level so can swim.
The TA is no big deal it will come down over time as you keep the pH in the 7's.

Why are you pushing to add borates?

Exact reasons? I would have to go dig those up again from the reading here on this forum.

I struggle with several things with my pool. My SWG either produces too much FC or not enough. I don't have a timer to shut power off to it so the pump always runs. I'm constantly chasing numbers to maintain my chemistry. My pool is anything but trouble free.

 

[mknauss]

I suspect that is the cover. If you are using a lower CYA, then you just have to end up running a higher FC than normal so you are ok for those times when the cover is open.

But I do not see what borates will do about that.

 

[Mdragger88]

If u wish to lower the ta you have to wait until the fc is under 10ppm to get an accurate ph result. The only real reason to lower ta is if u struggle with rising ph all the time. My ta was at 120 & it took a while but i was able to get it down to 60 - i haven’t had to add acid at all this year & my ph stays @ 7.6 . Between 60 & 80 ta is my pool’s happy place you’ll find yours. Also with cya if its in between u round up there is no 85 .
borates have no effect on cya & vice versa
They are also not magic. They’re kinda like a door stop for ph & ta - they just make it a little harder to move .
Also you can use pPoolMath
To help u dial in your swg

 

[ajup2it]

If u wish to lower the ta you have to wait until the fc is under 10ppm to get an accurate ph result. The only real reason to lower ta is if u struggle with rising ph all the time. My ta was at 120 & it took a while but i was able to get it down to 60 - i haven’t had to add acid at all this year & my ph stays @ 7.6 . Between 60 & 80 ta is my pool’s happy place you’ll find yours. Also with cya if its in between u round up there is no 85 .
borates have no effect on cya & vice versa
They are also not magic. They’re kinda like a door stop for ph & ta - they just make it a little harder to move .
Also you can use pPoolMath
To help u dial in your swg

I do struggle with pH creep and TA something fierce, which I think was initially what was driving me towards wanting to use borates. Theoretically, if I get my pH and TA where I want it, borates should help it stay there, right? Sounds like your pool is/was similar to mine. So basically, right now, I'm in the holding pattern until my FC comes down, right? There's little point in messing with anything else until FC is in a reasonable range, based on what I've read. Where do you attempt to keep your FC? 4-6, 6-8??

Regarding poolmath, I'm using the app but I do struggle with figuring out where to set my SWG regardless. Its like 40% is too high some days/weeks and others its not enough. I don't have anything fancy where it can be programmed. I have to manually adjust 0, 20, 40, 60, etc. as needed. I do know that my cover seems to keep it from dropping overnight - as I'm currently experiencing. Its set at 0% to try to get FC to drop and its s-l-o-w, but then we've not had tons of sun either. We're getting Florida level of rain here in Indiana.

 

[mknauss]

Borates will do nothing to stabilize TA. But TA should not change unless you are adding alot of high TA fill water. Which you should not be doing with a cover.

You will need to adjust your pump run time as you do not have an automation system to make finer adjustments to the SWCG. You can adjust it down to 2, 4, 6, 8 10 %.. Just hold the Less button down. The generating light will flash indicating the lower production rate.

 

[Mdragger88]

I do struggle with pH creep and TA something fierce, which I think was initially what was driving me towards wanting to use borates. Theoretically, if I get my pH and TA where I want it, borates should help it stay there, right? Sounds like your pool is/was similar to mine. So basically, right now, I'm in the holding pattern until my FC comes down, right? There's little point in messing with anything else until FC is in a reasonable range, based on what I've read. Where do you attempt to keep your FC? 4-6, 6-8??

Regarding poolmath, I'm using the app but I do struggle with figuring out where to set my SWG regardless. Its like 40% is too high some days/weeks and others its not enough. I don't have anything fancy where it can be programmed. I have to manually adjust 0, 20, 40, 60, etc. as needed. I do know that my cover seems to keep it from dropping overnight - as I'm currently experiencing. Its set at 0% to try to get FC to drop and its s-l-o-w, but then we've not had tons of sun either. We're getting Florida level of rain here in Indiana.

as you lower ta the ph will stabilize- with or without borates.
you have to wait until fc is below 10ppm to adjust ph as the test is inaccurate above 10ppm fc
i keep fc at the top of target for my cya