I am getting ready to build a pool at my house and I was looking around the internet for help and this forum looked like it had the most useful information and knowledgeable people to help. I hope to get started sppn and get valuable input from this community.
How and why did you find TFP?
- Thread starter Sunnydaze
- Start date
Well hello there! GO ahead and make a build thread so we can start helping you dial in your pool!
ak29
Bronze Supporter
- Feb 10, 2023
- 24
- Pool Size
- 19000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
I was looking for some kind of information beyond the conflicting stories from various other sites, the pool store, pool builder websites other than the one I used. There is a distinct air of mystery and nonsense around pools that seems tedious and suspect. It probably started when I said I wanted to build a salt pool and people started whispering darkly - 'you don't want that...CORRORSION'. Corrosion of what? Can you share more details please? Apparently not. When pushed, 'your furniture'. Um....
Gary Davis
Well-known member
I hear a lot of that "corrosion" wording with respect to the saturation index too. Mostly people, I think, who use that word are scared by pool store employees who wish to imply the equipment is in danger. In terms of calcium saturation indices, a better word is "aggressive" since it's not metal that is attacked, but the calcium inherent in the plaster surface.
When people search google, they will find this forum when seeking to attack the two basic problems of saturation and sanitation, and where they will be happy to find out that the solutions provided on this forum are DIFFERENT than what the pool store employees told them (e.g., about "corrosion" and "phosphates").
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'Certain' testing has proven to off frequently enough that it calls all of it into question. Even if it's correct today, tomorrow is a different employee with a machine that's one more day since it was calibrated.
But let's go a different way here. Let's assume both methods are 'off', to be entirely fair.
We are off lower than the actual and their test is off above the actual. (Or insert any 2 differences between the 2 methods). We absolutely need to be on the same page of the map, or we will be telling you to turn left when you should have turned right. No matter how much a newb objects, we can't help them with a different map page, and it's not for spite.
This thread is in the early stages of a hijack. The Original idea in this thread was "how did we find TFP".
It has turned a little bit into "pool care management", comparing methods other than TFP.
Look at our mission statement. "to promote a simple system of pool care". That does not include advice from outside of our forum because, frankly, that discussion is interminable.
TFP knows what we suggest works. To teach other techniques and testing outside of our system may or may not work,,,,,we are not sure.
The advice we give is based on the refinement of years and years of actual experience with these methods. Real people with real pools and real-world experience,
Discussion of other methods is really not part of this forum......we have our hands full trying to teach this method.
It has turned a little bit into "pool care management", comparing methods other than TFP.
Look at our mission statement. "to promote a simple system of pool care". That does not include advice from outside of our forum because, frankly, that discussion is interminable.
TFP knows what we suggest works. To teach other techniques and testing outside of our system may or may not work,,,,,we are not sure.
The advice we give is based on the refinement of years and years of actual experience with these methods. Real people with real pools and real-world experience,
Discussion of other methods is really not part of this forum......we have our hands full trying to teach this method.
kul
Bronze Supporter
- Oct 1, 2021
- 1,434
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
@duraleigh agree. When I started I was told I’d have to decide whether to use TFP or my pool guy’s method which was not quite working out. Well, for most coming on here about testing/sanitation/algae, it’s usually because the current method is not working. Great reason to give TFP a try at least.
ezchief
Gold Supporter
- Nov 15, 2019
- 49
- Pool Size
- 16520
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I got here in November 2019. New pool completed on Halloween 2019. Asked for opinions on an alumni website and 2 people were adamant about TFP. I joined and ignored the advice and used tablets until about September 2020. I had already bought the TF test kit but checked cya and was up to 70 already and realized i was headed for a big problem. Did a 50% water exchange and never looked back.
Defacto pool whisperer for the neighbors who get pool schooled. They don't listen.
Looking to do a swg under another thread.
Thanks TFP
Defacto pool whisperer for the neighbors who get pool schooled. They don't listen.
Looking to do a swg under another thread.
Thanks TFP
Bought a house with a pool in September 2019. COVID hit and I couldn't find any company that would take an additional pool. Started researching and found tfp. Who knows how much I would have spent if I didn't find this site.
thefloatqueen
Bronze Supporter
The monster was created when I initially came here before setting up my first pool (Intex Ultra Frame 18’ x 52”) to see if I wanted to commit to a “longer-term” pool. I had a bunch of questions about leveling and ground prep before installing. After the pool was filled and I received my TF-100 test kit, I haven’t left. I’ll take breaks here and there, but I always come back. Kind of like that drunk auntie who nobody hears from until she shows up to ruin Christmas. 
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Sn00py
Bronze Supporter
- Dec 6, 2022
- 69
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Sooo....bought an older house in 2020 with a pool that neither my wife nor I wanted to have lol.
Because it's our first pool I had to figure out how to manage chemicals etc. Didn't want to pay a pool guy $120+/month....call me cheap.
Life also taught me not to fully trust store personnel so I was checking the facts by searching the web. Came across TFP, got all info that I needed in easily understandable language and here I am.
Fast forward 3y, we love our pool and constantly looking for how to upgrade and make it better...well it's an old pool too (30+y).
Because it's our first pool I had to figure out how to manage chemicals etc. Didn't want to pay a pool guy $120+/month....call me cheap.
Life also taught me not to fully trust store personnel so I was checking the facts by searching the web. Came across TFP, got all info that I needed in easily understandable language and here I am.
Fast forward 3y, we love our pool and constantly looking for how to upgrade and make it better...well it's an old pool too (30+y).
amymeme
Well-known member
Way, way, way back, I was searching for how to manage persistent algae. And the guys name was Ben on a different pool forum. After a while, Ben dissipated and TFT sort of arose somehow from there. I continued. I check on now and then when I have a situation I've not faced before but I've been managing this old pool for 36 years so, knock on wood, not a whole lot of new scenarios. Except this year when the pool was completely clean, very close to clear and holding it's chlorine 24 hours after taking the pool cover off!
Found out about this website today as I was sheepishly looking for help. I am a drinking water regulator for the state of Washington and thought I could manage my mother in law's first pool for her. Got busy in the field doing inspections and ignored the pool for 4 hot Spokane days and came back to a green pool. I've been reading your threads/posts as fast as I can today so I can get the pool back under control. Getting them set up with better testing equipment and getting them off the pool store chemicals. Thank you all for being here.
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
Hi Seporah, welcome to TFP!
If you are a drinking water regulator, then you probably know about David Wahman's work about use of chlorinated cyanurates (dichlor and trichlor) for drinking water disinfection, and that it is the HOCl concentration that is relevant for keeping water sanitised. Here some examples of his work:
Chlorinated Cyanurates: Review of Water Chemistry and Associated Drinking Water Implications - PMC
Since 1958, cyanuric acid and two chlorinated cyanurates, commonly referred to as dichlor (anhydrous sodium dichloroisocyanurate or sodium dichloroisocyanurate dihydrate) or trichlor (trichloroisocyanuric acid), have been added to outdoor swimming ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
First Acid Ionization Constant of the Drinking Water Relevant Chemical Cyanuric Acid from 5 to 35 °C
Cyanuric acid is present in drinking water when chemicals commonly referred to as dichlor (anhydrous sodium dichloroisocyanurate or sodium dichloroisocyanurate dihydrate) or trichlor (trichloroisocyanuric acid) are used as alternative free chlorine sources. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
A Drinking Water Relevant Water Chemistry Model for the Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid System from 5 to 35 °C
In the United States, approved methods to measure free chlorine concentrations in drinking water systems adding sodium dichloroisocyanurate (dichlor) or trichloroisocyanuric acid (trichlor) as chlorine sources exhibit measurement bias from chlorinated ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The good thing is, that water chemistry doesn't really care whether we want to drink the water or swim in it. TFP's principles are based on the the same chemistry. From reading Wahman's papers, I guess that you might have to get your head around a few differences in what things are called:
Wahmann:
Free Chlorine = HOCl + OH-
Total Chlorine = HOCl + OH- + Chlorinated Cyanurates
Pool Industry:
Free Chlorine (FC) = HOCl + OH- + Chlorinated Cyanurates
Combined Chlorine (CC) = Chloramines
Total Chlorine (TC) = FC + CC
You probably know this already, but I thought I clear that up straight away to avoid misunderstandings.
The pool industry's definition of FC is based on the fact that Chlorinated Cyanurates are showing up in all available Free Chlorine pool test kits. Unfortunately, the Chlorinated Cyanurates are not contributing to killing pathogens in the water. Double unfortunately, wide parts of the Pool Industry ignore this and consider FC and CYA independent parameters.
TFP's recommended FC/CYA Levels take the percentage of chlorinated cyanurates at a given FC and CYA level into account, and take the ratio FC/CYA as a proxy for the HOCl concentration. Turns out the the FC/CYA ratio is over the pool-relevant range proportional to the HOCl concentration. All the recommended FC levels on our chart are equivalent to each other. These are the tables behind above link:
All the lower ends of the recommended target levels (like FC 5ppm at CYA 40ppm or FC 7 at CYA 60ppm) are in terms og HOCl concentration equivalent to an FC level of about 0.11ppm without CYA at pH 7.5 (without CYA, the pH dependency is quite pronounced (about 50% drop of HOCl between pH 7.5 and 8.0), but CYA buffers this effect and the dependency with CYA in the water is negligible in the pool relevant range (only about 15% effect between pH 7.5 and 8.0)).
The recommended SLAM levels (that you will need to clear your green pool) are equivalent to an FC of about 0.64ppm without CYA.
It sounds like you want to read about the SLAM Process.