Homemade Acid OR Chlorine Injection System

TRW

Active member
May 19, 2009
44
So Cal
Has anyone had any success with using the needle valve instead of the drip buttons for the acid injection, I have been unsuccessful with drip buttons, finding the right buttons, air leaks and the sort. I think I will try this, its seems like it would be a slam dunk if the flow can be metered down far enough.

TRW
 

Rangeball

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
785
Mas posted in another thread that the valve he and I were using couldn't be fine tuned enough to get proper draw, either too much or not enough. Mine couldn't be set low enough no matter what.

The hayward needle valve looks to allow much finer control, but it's about $50. I will likely try it next, but maybe not until next spring.
 

mas985

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May 3, 2007
13,733
Pleasanton, CA
I was able to adjust the flow rate within what I needed but the valve that I used really does not really have very fine control. Also, as in Rangeball's case, if the suction on the pump is too high, it makes it even more difficult to control. Before spending $50 on a valve though, I would make sure it has the fine control needed.
 

TRW

Active member
May 19, 2009
44
So Cal
So Rangeball, in your opinion it would be a waste of time to purchase the needle valve, have you tried placing them in series?
 

Rangeball

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
785
I would defer to mas985's expertise. He's much more tuned in to the process with lot's more experience, I just messed with it a bit for about 30 minutes last night. He was able to get flow reduced lower than he needed, I didn't but I was opening the valve until I saw liquid movement, perhaps before I see movement there still is movement?

Actually his experience makes me want to play with it some more before I give up on it.
 

Bama Rambler

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Jun 22, 2009
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Well, you guys did it. I just ordered the Hayward ¼" needle valve. They had one on Ebay for $20.00 so I ordered it. I'll post back how it works when it arrives and I get it installed.
 

mas985

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May 3, 2007
13,733
Pleasanton, CA
Bama,

That's an awesome price. Definitely let us know how it works and how many turns you get with the valve.

Rangeball,

As for the other version of the valve, I would encourage you to play with it a bit more. First, by the time to "see" water moving it is way too fast. This is one of the reasons I put about a 1" long air bubble into the line and watch it creep along. For 12 oz/hour, I see about 3" movement in a minute. For 4 oz/hour, that would be about 3/4" of an inch per minute. One technique that I used is is shut the valve off and then slowly open the valve until you see some movement in the bubble, then close it slightly and wait to see if it still moves. It will move very slowly so you need to have patience.


TRW,

Your success may have more to do with your setup than the particular valve. In general, I think people have more success the lower the HP pump and the bigger the suction plumbing. This reduces the suction at the pump and through the feed line. The lower the suction, the easier it is to control the flow rate. Since you have the Intelliflo and I assume use the the lower RPM most of the time, that will help your situation but if you use multiple speeds then it can also make things more complicated as well. But if the valve that Bama is using has more control, that may be a better way to go.
 

Rangeball

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
785
mas985 said:
Rangeball,

As for the other version of the valve, I would encourage you to play with it a bit more. First, by the time to "see" water moving it is way too fast. This is one of the reasons I put about a 1" long air bubble into the line and watch it creep along. For 12 oz/hour, I see about 3" movement in a minute. For 4 oz/hour, that would be about 3/4" of an inch per minute. One technique that I used is is shut the valve off and then slowly open the valve until you see some movement in the bubble, then close it slightly and wait to see if it still moves. It will move very slowly so you need to have patience.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I was definitely being impatient. How do you introduce the bubble? Get the hose filled, lift the end out of the draw solution so it picks up a bit of air then put the hose back in?

You used 1/4" vinyl hose, right? I assume the measurements won't match up for me due to the difference in suction rates? I assume your 1/2hp has more suction than my 3/4hp on low, right?
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
13,733
Pleasanton, CA
Yes to all questions. A slight lift of the hose should get you a small bubble but the valve has to be set for a little suction to suck up the air. But if you can have one hand on the valve and one on the hose, you should be able to get one going without sucking it through the whole line.

Also, with 1.5" plumbing (that is correct isn't it?), you may have about the same suction or even a little higher on low speed as me on high speed with 2.5" plumbing but it depends on the plumbing. However, I use to have this setup on a 1 HP full rated pump but using only the buttons and I never needed more than 9 buttons so I think with a little tweeking, you should be able to get it to work. One think to try is to fully tighten the valve so it seats really well and perhaps will reform the needle valve a little bit. That may give you a little more control over the valve. But I did find that I needed about 1/8th of a turn before any flow showed up.
 

Rangeball

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
785
Yes, 1.5" piping. Good memory :)

When I initially closed the valve, I set it so the arrowheads on the handle were at 12 and 6 holding it horizontally, thinking I could use a 180* turn as stopping points to measure flow. When I had it set this way, I couldn't blow air through it, so figured it must be fully closed. However, when hooked up, it drew liquid. I had to torque it down another 1/8 turn to get flow stopped. From what you are saying the right setting is somewhere between fully closed and that 1/8 turn, not a lot of room for fine tuning but hopefully doable.

I hope to mess with it some more after work, if the rain holds off.
 

Bama Rambler

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Jun 22, 2009
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TRW said:
Bama, Have you tried the needle valve from US Plastics? I'm curious if that one would work.
If you're talking about the SMC valve, I have, but it's not really designed for the control we need. It's designed for higher flow.

The Hayward may not be any better but I'll know in a couple of weeks. I looked at the drawings for it and it appears the have a much finer control at the bottom of the stroke where we need it.
 

azdaren

Member
Jun 9, 2010
20
cave creek, AZ
Ok I have tested the needle valve that I posted a link to earlier in the thread.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories ... edle-Valve

I just found it way to hard to get the flow I was desiring (about 4 fl oz / hour). The adjustment just wasnt fine enough for me.

I also have been testing this one with good results so far.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories ... -Roll-Type

I unfortunately order the rc10, which didnt allow me to adjust the flow low enough also. I ended up just epoxying a thin piece of plastic under the roller, allowing me to squeeze the tube tighter. There is still too fine a line between no flow, and too much flow. Probably has a little to do with my 1 speed, 12 year old pump!

I have been using this setup for 10 days and just refilled my tank today (7 gallon walmart, $12). The threads on the 1" pipe I used for the down tube didnt quite match the jug's lid threads, so I just forced it and it essentially retapped the soft plastic of the lid. Lucky!

Its drawing 10oz / hour, which isnt ideal, but I can live with it for now. Ill just have to adjust my water/acid ratio.

Thanks to this site I have gone from a puck floater and daily maintenance, to refilling the acid jug every 10 days currently. The Zodiac CL generator I picked up off Craigslist for $100 is still going strong, fingers crossed.

I plan on running with this valve for a few weeks to see if it stays consistent, I'll try and tweak the flow just a smidge.[attachment=0:1k4mxile]Pool3.JPG[/attachment:1k4mxile]
 

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maxepr1

LifeTime Supporter
Mar 21, 2011
716
DFW
Just found this website the other day and I'm hooked! Love the thread you started Mark! Very interested in trying it out! Have been looking into the Sense-and Dispense system but I have found that my P-4 board neededs to be upgraded to work so all prices are adding up! To much money for a system that you guy's have built for very little and seems to me works just as good! I am curious about the valves? The thread ends and there isn't much feedback on are they working? Having a little trouble sourcing the drippers? Seems the manufacture has changed them? HD has the model you recomend Mark, but there look different? All black? Before I pull the trigger I thought I'd pose the question about the success with the valves? The thread ended about 8 months ago so I figure the beta testers would have solid data by now?? Starting to gather parts would like to test out now so I can dial it in before the big swim season begins. Thanks guy's!
 

Bama Rambler

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Jun 22, 2009
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It's been more than a couple of weeks, but the Hayward is working flawlessly. It allows for very fine adjustments and will adjust all the way down to a very slow drip.