- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,544
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
High Demand Pool with Spa and stream
- Thread starter runboy
- Start date
- May 3, 2014
- 62,885
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
With the water we deal with here in the desert, I see a continuous battle of high pH and calcium scale buildup if using the stream.
Hope things work out.
Hope things work out.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,693
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hey, if you got a box, I'll think outside it!! That idea was a stretch, of course, I was just trying to inspire a little creativity...
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,693
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Every party has to have a pooper!!
But he's right, of course. Marty had already summed this up previously, the guy that designed this pool had no idea about how it was going to be maintained, for sure.
Calcium scaling could be reduced/controlled with a water softener. Would the pH issue be any worse than a typical in-pool spa with spill over? They're all problematic. That could be addressed with an acid injection system. There's always a tradeoff that can be made.
Ultimately, the OP has to decide at some point what level of maintenance he's willing to endure for this feature. And then modify the feature accordingly. Me, I've taken great strides to modify my pool down to near zero maintenance. That works for me. But it's a pretty boring pool (no water features, no spa, no water slide, just a simple pool). I put my effort into the landscaping, and I have a simple free-standing fountain for a little aural therapy. Others that are willing to put in the time and effort and money required, can have much more interesting pool environments. Tradeoffs...
I am currently in an arid climate. If the level in the stream stays constant should be okay with weekly brushing. Or hide the edges with overhang as suggested and can ignore it. My eyes betray me some but I think the stream as photographed would already have this issue.
I don't think the stream will make a huge dent in the pH aeration as it isn't choppy enough from what I see (again can we trust the eyes?). It will however act as a semi solar heating unit.
Looking at the pool photo, this pool was designed to look smart. Function and care was secondary.
Based on my limited experience with the pool, keeping PH under control hasn’t been a big problem.
There is a little bit of calcium buildup on some of the waterfall rocks, but nothing extreme.
The system has been running as is for 18 years, so obviously it’s doable. Might not be worth it though. We will see.
A pipe based gravity system would be a pain. It would be overflow water from the spa, so I would need to pick up debris in a basket or similar at the top. Quickly the system would end up overflowing.
If I don’t pick up debris at the top, the pipe would get clogged.
i would think anything involving a basket will require a pump and a bypass system like a skimmer
There is a little bit of calcium buildup on some of the waterfall rocks, but nothing extreme.
The system has been running as is for 18 years, so obviously it’s doable. Might not be worth it though. We will see.
A pipe based gravity system would be a pain. It would be overflow water from the spa, so I would need to pick up debris in a basket or similar at the top. Quickly the system would end up overflowing.
If I don’t pick up debris at the top, the pipe would get clogged.
i would think anything involving a basket will require a pump and a bypass system like a skimmer
Just dropping by to say your pool is beautiful! Once you’ve TFP-ified it it will be even more amazing.
So its been almost a month since my original post so I have an update with some additional questions.
I have decided to give the current setup a year to see how manageable it is now that I know exactly what is going on thanks to TFP
After cleaning the stream I gave the pool a good slam until it passed the OCLT and since my levels have been stable.
I installed a Stenner pump + 15 gallon tank to ad my chlorine and my pool has been pretty stable using 43 oz 10% Bleach per day. This equates to around 3PPM/day given my 11.000 gallon pool.
Like you guys predicted my PH is climbing as a result of aeration. I have to ad around 50 oz of 14.5% Muriatic Acid on a weekly basis to keep it within target. I am still contemplating wether I should ad a second Stenner to ad the acid or just ad it manually. Its not that much, so definitely manageable, but automation is of course nice. I am also considering lowering my TA to the lower end of the suggested range to limit PH increase. Any idea how much this would affect my acid use?
Here are my current numbers:
FC: 7.0
PH: 7.4
TA: 90
CH: 350
CYA: 70
CSI: 0.06
TEMP: 86
I have decided to give the current setup a year to see how manageable it is now that I know exactly what is going on thanks to TFP
After cleaning the stream I gave the pool a good slam until it passed the OCLT and since my levels have been stable.
I installed a Stenner pump + 15 gallon tank to ad my chlorine and my pool has been pretty stable using 43 oz 10% Bleach per day. This equates to around 3PPM/day given my 11.000 gallon pool.
Like you guys predicted my PH is climbing as a result of aeration. I have to ad around 50 oz of 14.5% Muriatic Acid on a weekly basis to keep it within target. I am still contemplating wether I should ad a second Stenner to ad the acid or just ad it manually. Its not that much, so definitely manageable, but automation is of course nice. I am also considering lowering my TA to the lower end of the suggested range to limit PH increase. Any idea how much this would affect my acid use?
Here are my current numbers:
FC: 7.0
PH: 7.4
TA: 90
CH: 350
CYA: 70
CSI: 0.06
TEMP: 86
So its been almost a month since my original post so I have an update with some additional questions.
I have decided to give the current setup a year to see how manageable it is now that I know exactly what is going on thanks to TFP
After cleaning the stream I gave the pool a good slam until it passed the OCLT and since my levels have been stable.
I installed a Stenner pump + 15 gallon tank to ad my chlorine and my pool has been pretty stable using 43 oz 10% Bleach per day. This equates to around 3PPM/day given my 11.000 gallon pool.
Like you guys predicted my PH is climbing as a result of aeration. I have to ad around 50 oz of 14.5% Muriatic Acid on a weekly basis to keep it within target. I am still contemplating wether I should ad a second Stenner to ad the acid or just ad it manually. Its not that much, so definitely manageable, but automation is of course nice. I am also considering lowering my TA to the lower end of the suggested range to limit PH increase. Any idea how much this would affect my acid use?
Here are my current numbers:
FC: 7.0
PH: 7.4
TA: 90
CH: 350
CYA: 70
CSI: 0.06
TEMP: 86
Dirk is the acid dosing man so hopefully he sees this soon. I have an auto acid dosing system but I think the set up is different. Mine has a ph probe which constantly reads the ph level and dispenses sufficient acid from a drum to keep it to set level. I absolutely love it now that it’s working. For the first 7 weeks I was dealing with a faulty probe. Once it was replaced it’s been a dream! I just fill the drum to the specified dilution once every 3 or so weeks.
As for your TA I’m no expert but personally I wouldn’t touch it. It will likely continue to drop with your acid additions anyway. Your csi is great so I wouldn’t mess with what’s not broken. With your ph though you might want to see if it likes a slightly higher level. You might find your acid usage drops right off if you aim for a slightly higher figure like 7.6/7.7. You can plug the numbers into the pool math app and see what it will do to your csi.
My PH is 7.4 because I just lowered it from 7.9. What acid system is it that you have?
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,693
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
As I've written here ad nauseam, I love my SWG/acid injector setup. Completely stable FC and pH, without dosing, without spiking, etc. I'm barely testing any more (NOT recommended! But I'm lazy.) Can't say enough good things about the setup. But before you try that, you can always try lowering your TA to see what happens. Perhaps that will be your solution. It's going to be hard for anyone to predict the outcome for you. There are a lot of variables. You'll just have to give it a go.
I had originally moved my TA down to about 90, but haven't touched it since. It came down some on it's own after that, and since the acid injector it's come down a bit more. I'm now in the 50-60 range, but still need regular acid doses to keep pH in check. My plaster is still newish, so that's part of my equation. My SWG seems to have added to the pH rise (there is debate about that here at TFP, but it does occur for a lot of us). Your chlorine pump might not be as much of an issue. Easy and cheap enough for you to experiment and see, right?
The automation means more gizmos. And acid injectors need annual maintenance. For me, the daily convenience more than compensates for those issues. More importantly (to me) is that the pH now remains stable from day to day, even hour to hour. No more blasting it down to 7.2, to see how many days I can stretch it before blasting it again, all while it constantly is trying to claw its way back to 7.8+. With the injector, now it's pretty close to 7.7 all day every day, no more roller coaster. I have it in my head that is better for the pool long term...
I had originally moved my TA down to about 90, but haven't touched it since. It came down some on it's own after that, and since the acid injector it's come down a bit more. I'm now in the 50-60 range, but still need regular acid doses to keep pH in check. My plaster is still newish, so that's part of my equation. My SWG seems to have added to the pH rise (there is debate about that here at TFP, but it does occur for a lot of us). Your chlorine pump might not be as much of an issue. Easy and cheap enough for you to experiment and see, right?
The automation means more gizmos. And acid injectors need annual maintenance. For me, the daily convenience more than compensates for those issues. More importantly (to me) is that the pH now remains stable from day to day, even hour to hour. No more blasting it down to 7.2, to see how many days I can stretch it before blasting it again, all while it constantly is trying to claw its way back to 7.8+. With the injector, now it's pretty close to 7.7 all day every day, no more roller coaster. I have it in my head that is better for the pool long term...
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,693
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yikes! For example... I thought I had tested a few days ago. Somehow a whole week vanished on me. It's been 11 days!! My TA has come up a bit to 70, but my pH is 7.8. It was 7.8 19 days ago, right before my vacation. 7.7 when I got back after five days. That was my record for leaving the pool without testing. Apparently, I've just established a new record of 11 days without testing! Again, not recommending that, and didn't mean to. But it sure is nice to know I can leave my pool for at least that long without having to worry about it, or have anyone else do anything to it. I'll have to set calendar reminders to test my pool. Now that I don't have to every day (like I did before the injector), I'll have to better remember to do so. That's my new pool maintenance complaint. I can no longer remember when I last tested, and don't have a compelling reason to. That's what we call "a quality problem."
And just to drive it home, I'm only struggling with my testing schedule now. I still haven't had to dose anything in my pool since June 13. As a reference (I was feeling nostalgic scrolling back though my Pool Math notes looking for that date), right up until June 13 I'd been dosing MA every single day. 2 to 11 oz a day. Always different (probably because of the time of day I was testing). So every day, test and dose and test and dose and test and dose. Good riddance.
And just to drive it home, I'm only struggling with my testing schedule now. I still haven't had to dose anything in my pool since June 13. As a reference (I was feeling nostalgic scrolling back though my Pool Math notes looking for that date), right up until June 13 I'd been dosing MA every single day. 2 to 11 oz a day. Always different (probably because of the time of day I was testing). So every day, test and dose and test and dose and test and dose. Good riddance.
And there he is!
Yup I’m a bit lazy too since my probe was replaced. I test maybe once a week. Fc is dialed in and always fairly consistent. Ph is always right where my system tells me it is. I’m am still cautious though and aware that the probe may malfunction. My acid dosing is connected to my swcg. The ph probe is screwed in to the pvc pipe and reads the ph then the unit dispenses acid through a little motor and pulls it up from the big drum and into the return line via clear tubing. It’s pretty clever really. We are in Australia and it’s an Astral swcg. It’s an Astral Viron e-quilibrium salt chlorinator
Yup I’m a bit lazy too since my probe was replaced. I test maybe once a week. Fc is dialed in and always fairly consistent. Ph is always right where my system tells me it is. I’m am still cautious though and aware that the probe may malfunction. My acid dosing is connected to my swcg. The ph probe is screwed in to the pvc pipe and reads the ph then the unit dispenses acid through a little motor and pulls it up from the big drum and into the return line via clear tubing. It’s pretty clever really. We are in Australia and it’s an Astral swcg. It’s an Astral Viron e-quilibrium salt chlorinator
I'm sticking to adding liquid chlorine in my setup. A lot of my rocks around the pool have various amount of "rust staining" and I am a little scared of the SWGs for that reason. After adding the Stenner for chlorination, life is easy on the chlorine side. Now I just need to determine if I want to make it even easier by adding another one for the Acid.