High Calcium question(s)

[gingerbreadkid]

Hey guys, been seeing my calcium hardness climb over the last year or so of a new build pool (15 months old - plaster). I'm doing liquid chlorine daily - all my other levels are good aside from my PH drifting to the high side which I bring down with muriatic acid (monitor daily). From what I'm reading with a new build that happens for some time.

Using the Taylor kit I'm reading 825-850. Which seems crazy. Test strips show even higher (I know). My fill water reads 225-250, which is hard, but perfectly in line with what the city reports for it (Los Angeles). I know the calcium rises with evaporation, but that seems high for that period of time - no? I don't put any pool store junk in the pool at all. Chlorine, acid and that's it.

My water is crystal clear, and no scaling at all (in the pool, don't know about the internals of heater) but no outward signs at all of any problem.

My questions are:

1. Is a reading this high unbelievable? As in can anything else affect the calcium test to make a reading that high?

2.If it really is that high, is it really a problem if everything looks great and all the other levels are in perfect check?

Would obviously rather not take the Karma hit by draining and refilling given the current drought conditions.
Appreciate any advice from you guys,

Thanks-

 

[HermanTX]

Using the Taylor kit I'm reading 825-850. Which seems crazy. Test strips show even higher (I know). My fill water reads 225-250, which is hard, but perfectly in line with what the city reports for it (Los Angeles). I know the calcium rises with evaporation, but that seems high for that period of time - no? I don't put any pool store junk in the pool at all. Chlorine, acid and that's it.

Has the CH rose since your first fill or just stable? Do you know if the PB added calcium chloride to the pool initially? He may have added too much.
Others may have better input from CA area.

 

[gingerbreadkid]

Has the CH rose since your first fill or just stable? Do you know if the PB added calcium chloride to the pool initially? He may have added too much.
Others may have better input from CA area.

Thanks for your response - It has been rising, was in the 400-450 range and has continued to rise throughout the last year. Don't think the builder added anything, but if he did, it would have been right in the beginning which wouldn't explain the ongoing rise.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Its likely a consequence of your “new” plaster and your hard water. Properly cured plaster shouldn’t technically emit a lot of calcium into the water but it can and your fill water is very hard. You’ve also been in a severe drought for a long time which is only going to worsen evaporation.

I suggest you consider installing a whole house water softener and finding a way to tie in your auto fill line. If you use softened water for top offs, your CH will stop rising. The only way to reduce it at this point is by partially draining. Your over the top end of CH which can cause scaling if you’re not carefully managing pH and TA to keep your CSI in check. Eventually the high CH is just going to be unmanageable.

For the record, my pool got all the way up near 1500ppm CH. at that point, I could not keep the CSI in check and I had to drain.

 

[gingerbreadkid]

Its likely a consequence of your “new” plaster and your hard water. Properly cured plaster shouldn’t technically emit a lot of calcium into the water but it can and your fill water is very hard. You’ve also been in a severe drought for a long time which is only going to worsen evaporation.

I suggest you consider installing a whole house water softener and finding a way to tie in your auto fill line. If you use softened water for top offs, your CH will stop rising. The only way to reduce it at this point is by partially draining. Your over the top end of CH which can cause scaling if you’re not carefully managing pH and TA to keep your CSI in check. Eventually the high CH is just going to be unmanageable.

For the record, my pool got all the way up near 1500ppm CH. at that point, I could not keep the CSI in check and I had to drain.

Thank you for your response - yeah, looking at maybe a small inline filter I can plumb onto the line just for the autofill. Then partial drain and fill.

While I've got you guys here, been considering switching to salt water - would that help at all with the calcium levels (wishful thinking) or does that have nothing to do with it? Thanks again.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I suggest you consider installing a whole house water softener and finding a way to tie in your auto fill line. If you use softened water for top offs, your CH will stop rising.

This is the key. A SWG won't make a difference.

Don't waste your time with a hose-end filter. Take a look at the portable RV softener link in my sig. They do require frequent manual flushing but are effective in decreasing calcium rise.

 

[HermanTX]

While I've got you guys here, been considering switching to salt water - would that help at all with the calcium levels (wishful thinking) or does that have nothing to do with it? Thanks again.

A saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) is only good to produce Chlorine - not related to Calcium.

Suggest a small water softener such as those used in RV. Some members have that. Unless you wanted to put in an whole house water softener which could be in the $2000 range (or more depending on these inflationary times)

Edit @Rancho Cost-a-Lotta got you covered as we were both responding at similar time.

 

[gingerbreadkid]

Awesome guys - thank you!

 

[mgtfp]

saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) is only good to produce Chlorine

But for that purpose they are not just good, they are marvellous. Highly recommend to do that anyway. Ideally after you've dealt with your high CH, SWG cells are usually the first location where scaling occurs due to locally increased pH within the cell.

 

[flynwill]

I have a 9-month old pool in the LA area, and it's CH has been climbing steadily as well, 625 at the last test.
My pool is also covered for all but about 30-60 minutes per day as well and so the evaporative losses don't really explain the CH gain, and i suspect the new plaster.
One thing to note: The TFKits or Taylor CH test is somewhat prone to reading high if not done carefully as the drops from the reagent bottle can often be substantially smaller than the test assumes. I use a paper towel to make sure the dropper tip is well wetted by the reagent and then drop as slowly as possible.
One option you might consider is Reverse Osmosis treatment. If you google "pool water recycling" you'll find some vendors in our area. It still uses water but far less than draining and refilling the pool.

 

[gingerbreadkid]

But for that purpose they are not just good, they are marvellous. Highly recommend to do that anyway. Ideally after you've dealt with your high CH, SWG cells are usually the first location where scaling occurs due to locally increased pH within the cell.

Yes, I'm leaning heavily to do it. It sounds lazy, because it is, but getting tired of the daily pour routine.

 

[gingerbreadkid]

I have a 9-month old pool in the LA area, and it's CH has been climbing steadily as well, 625 at the last test.
My pool is also covered for all but about 30-60 minutes per day as well and so the evaporative losses don't really explain the CH gain, and i suspect the new plaster.
One thing to note: The TFKits or Taylor CH test is somewhat prone to reading high if not done carefully as the drops from the reagent bottle can often be substantially smaller than the test assumes. I use a paper towel to make sure the dropper tip is well wetted by the reagent and then drop as slowly as possible.
One option you might consider is Reverse Osmosis treatment. If you google "pool water recycling" you'll find some vendors in our area. It still uses water but far less than draining and refilling the pool.

Thanks for this, good to know. Maybe I'll leave it for a bit and see if it somewhat stabilizes then do a partial refill at that point. And I'll definitely check out that reverse osmosis, had no idea.

 

[mgtfp]

It sounds lazy, because it is, but getting tired of the daily pour routine

Nothing lazy about that, just sensible.

 

[wireform]

The TFKits or Taylor CH test is somewhat prone to reading high if not done carefully as the drops from the reagent bottle can often be substantially smaller than the test assumes. I use a paper towel to make sure the dropper tip is well wetted by the reagent and then drop as slowly as possible.

You mixing up the TA test that can have a static charge when new but not the CH test.

 

[wireform]

You're going to get the initial CH the tap water had when the pool was filled plus some from the plaster. The rest can be controlled via the RV water softener when topping off due to evaporation.

 

[gingerbreadkid]

This is the key. A SWG won't make a difference.

Don't waste your time with a hose-end filter. Take a look at the portable RV softener link in my sig. They do require frequent manual flushing but are effective in decreasing calcium rise.

Do you find the softener raises PH in the treated water at all? Only reason I ask is I had already bought a hose end filter (I'll likely return) and I tested it out of curiosity. It took out about 2/3 of the Calcium from my fill water (225 to 75) which I thought was pretty good actually - but it raised the PH to unreadable levels. My guess would be 8.6 or maybe even higher.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Do you find the softener raises PH in the treated water at all? Only reason I ask is I had already bought a hose end filter (I'll likely return) and I tested it out of curiosity. It took out about 2/3 of the Calcium from my fill water (225 to 75) which I thought was pretty good actually - but it raised the PH to unreadable levels. My guess would be 8.6 or maybe even higher.

Ion exchange resins for mineral hardness do not change pH or TA. Sodium ions are exchanged for calcium and magnesium ions in solution. pH and carbonate levels are unaffected.

That hose end filter may be using something other than an exchange resin, possibly using lime and carbonate as a softening agent. Lime softening greatly increases pH of the resulting solution.