Here we go

[pcollins22]

The challenge I’m having is that the look we were going for is having the Baja steps span the connection between pool wall and spa wall.

But I also know that I don’t want a super shallow end. So I’m caught between having to change the design and look of the pool to accommodate the depth I want, or forego the depth to get the look. The only compromising choice available it seems is to add the second step off the Baja which will cut into the usable space of the Baja but at least accommodate the 4ft depth.

 

[Biskitz]

• Heater - HELP!

Questions:

• Best HP for pump? (I am of the assumption this will power both the pool and spa on the same pump?)
• Return lines okay at 2", but all supply lines should be 2.5" minimum?
• Best Heater for my setup? Natural gas stubout available at back of the house, as well as at gas meter
• Chiller now or just have plumbed to add later? How much room do I need to leave/account for this at the pad?
  • Thinking a Glacier brand. Not sure if GPC25 is sufficient for my pool size, or if I really need the GPC210. (see attachment for specs)

• If you think you'll need a heater and a chiller, Raypak (and possibly some other brands) have heat pump units that do heating and cooling. It's energy efficient and takes up less space. However, dry AZ air will reduce its efficiency, so you may want to go a size or two up than normally recommended for your volume. I may be off base with this one though, since I'm not familiar with AZ climate. If temperatures fluctuate a lot within days, gas heat and chiller may be the best option since they can adjust the quickest. You could possibly do the heat/cool pump as your chiller WITH a gas heater, that way you have double the heat components. Heat pump to keep a lag temp and gas to keep a lead temp.
• Everyone on here goes nuts about the Pentair IntelliFlo3. Don't get me wrong it's definitely a good choice for the right pool, however just because it's variable speed, doesn't mean buying an oversized pump and turning it down for your pool size is a good idea. It's a very expensive pump and its efficiency (watts/GPM) at a low speed is lower than some properly sized pumps at higher speed, while often running the same power simply because it's so large. I'd recommend a 1.8-2 THP VS pump, roughly. Whatever you get, make sure you can get a warranty and/or have parts for it. You don't have to take anyone's word for it, nor mine, so do some more looking and don't be hasty.
• Suction lines should be the same or larger than supply, optimally. Go as big as you can, practically. 2.5" on both would be great. Bigger lines means more flow for less pump speed (power), which is also less noise, which also is easier on the equipment mechanically. Another good investment, but this one will be extremely hard to justify changing once installed.

 

[ajw22]

• Best HP for pump? (I am of the assumption this will power both the pool and spa on the same pump?)

If you are getting the Intellicenter then get the largest Pentair UltraTemp HP. It will give you the best RS-485 integration controls with the IntelliCenter.

Aquacal is also good and has digital RS-485 controls that will work with the IntelliCenter.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair UltraTemp Heat Pump - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

AquaCal Heat Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

• Best Heater for my setup? Natural gas stubout available at back of the house, as well as at gas meter

This recent post will give you an idea of what to expect with a HP and no pool cover in AZ...

Hayward Heat Pump 120KBTU Struggling to Heat

This is my first post so go easy on me. Just had a pool finished here in Goodyear AZ, 10000 Gallon pool with a Hayward Omnilogic setup. The Heat Pump is a 120KBTU and for the life of me I cannot get the pump to heat up the pool beyond 77 degrees F. The variable pump has been running 24/7 at...

www.troublefreepool.com

A gas heater will let you heat your spa on demand in whatever winter conditions you have.

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

• Chiller now or just have plumbed to add later? How much room do I need to leave/account for this at the pad?
  • Thinking a Glacier brand. Not sure if GPC25 is sufficient for my pool size, or if I really need the GPC210. (see attachment for specs)

Provision for a Glacier chiller and live with the pool for a year and see if you feel you really need it.

 

[pcollins22]

Feb 3 Update:
We now have finalized plans and are ready to submit for permits. Would you mind doing a once over and let me know if anything major sticks out?

• We decided to scrap the IFCS. Feeling good about the decision
• Upgraded to 8 jets (instead of 6) for the elevated spa. Also decided to run it's own dedicated pump
• Increased sizing of spa plumbing to 3-4"
• Increased minimum depth to 4' instead of the initial 3'/3.5'
• Will plumb for a future chiller and leave space at the pad, in case we decide to add at a later date

 

[kimkats]

Just make sure the depth is WATER depth-from the bottom of the pool to the middle of the skimmer opening. Some people measure it from the bottom of the pool to the coping. You lose some inches of water depth like that.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Step in the spa above the seat or is it going to be a sit-n-spin entry?

 

[pjt]

• We decided to scrap the IFCS. Feeling good about the decision
• Upgraded to 8 jets (instead of 6) for the elevated spa. Also decided to run it's own dedicated pump
• Increased sizing of spa plumbing to 3-4"
• Increased minimum depth to 4' instead of the initial 3'/3.5'
• Will plumb for a future chiller and leave space at the pad, in case we decide to add at a later date

I like all of those ideas. The aerator will help lower temperatures in the summer, so a chiller may not be needed. Good to plan for future growth/options.

A few considerations/suggestions:

• Have two skimmers independently plumbed to the pad. Pool main drain is optional (I wouldn't have one).
• Delete the UV/Bioshield. You get ample free UV from the sun.
• Great job having the fill line connected to the water softener.
• Do you envision running the spa and pool lights independently or sharing the same transformer? (99% of the time you'll want them coordinating with each other.)
• You can optionally add a three way diverter between the pump and filter to vacuum to waste or quickly pump water out of the pool.
• SWCG bypass isn't required/desired.
• External heater bypass needs a check valve on the output side of the heater.
• Are you committed to a venturi skimmer? Conventional skimmers are simple and work great.
• Ensure that no ball valves are installed, only quality diverters (Jandy Never Lube or Pentair).
• Install unions on all equipment.
• I see a suction cleaner listed. I'd highly recommend a robot.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Construction Notes that caught my attention,
Excavation: confirm level elevation with a laser level completely around the pool forms and raised spa forms.
The elevation of the forms in comparison to the nearest finished deck work should also be determined.
Plumbing: if possible have a single pad poured of concrete to place all the equipment on, also request a hose bib at the equipment pad along with a drain that ties into the deck drains.
Steel: ask to have all the pig tails pointed towards the outside of the shell.
Shotcrete: what PSI mix and commodity will be used? This leads to the question of are you going to pay out of pocket for a soils test? This is the reason why your contract has in bold letters highlighted in yellow that if not they are going to assume no exspansive soil exists and if a problem does exists in the future with the integrity of the shell this will come up. One more reason to think about 4500 PSI Shotcrete.

 

[pcollins22]

Step in the spa above the seat or is it going to be a sit-n-spin entry?

Sit and spin

 

[pcollins22]

I like all of those ideas. The aerator will help lower temperatures in the summer, so a chiller may not be needed. Good to plan for future growth/options.

A few considerations/suggestions:

• Have two skimmers independently plumbed to the pad. Pool main drain is optional (I wouldn't have one).
• Delete the UV/Bioshield. You get ample free UV from the sun.
• Great job having the fill line connected to the water softener.
• Do you envision running the spa and pool lights independently or sharing the same transformer? (99% of the time you'll want them coordinating with each other.)
• You can optionally add a three way diverter between the pump and filter to vacuum to waste or quickly pump water out of the pool.
• SWCG bypass isn't required/desired.
• External heater bypass needs a check valve on the output side of the heater.
• Are you committed to a venturi skimmer? Conventional skimmers are simple and work great.
• Ensure that no ball valves are installed, only quality diverters (Jandy Never Lube or Pentair).
• Install unions on all equipment.
• I see a suction cleaner listed. I'd highly recommend a robot.

Thank you. Agree with many of your comments. Will be using robot, and only jandy style valves.

Can you expand on the 3-way valve, specifically what I would need to change and where in my equipment/plumbing drawing?

Do I need a check valve on input side of heater AND output, or only output?

Is there a problem with the Venturi skimmer? I hadn’t looked into these specific comparisons.

 

[pcollins22]

Construction Notes that caught my attention,View attachment 552848
Excavation: confirm level elevation with a laser level completely around the pool forms and raised spa forms.
The elevation of the forms in comparison to the nearest finished deck work should also be determined.
Plumbing: if possible have a single pad poured of concrete to place all the equipment on, also request a hose bib at the equipment pad along with a drain that ties into the deck drains.
Steel: ask to have all the pig tails pointed towards the outside of the shell.
Shotcrete: what PSI mix and commodity will be used? This leads to the question of are you going to pay out of pocket for a soils test? This is the reason why your contract has in bold letters highlighted in yellow that if not they are going to assume no exspansive soil exists and if a problem does exists in the future with the integrity of the shell this will come up. One more reason to think about 4500 PSI Shotcrete.

Thanks for the info and questions/comments.

In regards to the shotcrete, I will not be doing a soil test. Are you suggesting I request 4500 psi in this case, regardless of if “necessary”? Any idea how much price difference this would be? I have not yet received bids from shotcrete companies so I don’t have the specifics for this yet.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

The only way to know what PSI Shotcrete to be required is to have a licensed Geotecnical consultant provide design criteria for both steel engineering and Shotcrete.

The construction notes do not state what PSI Shotcrete will be provided, in my area $300 a yard is typical for 4500 PSI.

 

[JoyfulL]

I like the Shellock ivory and Corallock ivory. I am waiting on my local salesman to bring me some samples. Please post pics of yours when it's installed!

I have the artistic pavers in Cool White for coping and all decking. Love them!!

 

[pjt]

Can you expand on the 3-way valve, specifically what I would need to change and where in my equipment/plumbing drawing?

Install a 3-way diverter valve between the output of the pump and the input of the filter. Here's an example (red arrow is the flow of waste water):

Do I need a check valve on input side of heater AND output, or only output?

Check valve only the output. Flow into the heater is controlled by the 3-way diverter valve.

Is there a problem with the Venturi skimmer? I hadn’t looked into these specific comparisons.

It overcomplicates something that's simple. You can do in-depth research here and decide if it's right for you. Regardless, I'd strongly recommend two skimmers.

 

[pcollins22]

March Update:
Quite a lot of construction has happened during recent weeks, and hoping to provide a summary here for others going through the process and for myself to look back on. I already owe a huge debt of gratitude to those on the Forum that have provided insight and guidance thus far.

02/14 - Layout: All measurements verified with fancy gadgets and the dirt marked for dig. Looked a bit small at initial layout. Almost decided to add 2 feet to the width, but decided against it.



02/19 - Excavation: Started promptly at 6am and was finished by 1pm. Overall very efficient crew that did a good job. Though, one mis-step was not realizing I had an 18" elevated spa so they blew out a bit of my dam wall that had to be rebuild by sandbags. Will cost me more in shotcrete, but at least they caught it the same day and didn't have to come back.




02/20 - Equipment delivered: for plumber and electrician

02/21 - 02/23 Plumbing: Had to ensure they knew I wanted 3" suction and 2.5" returns for the spa for my 8 jets with dedicated Intelliflo pump. It was great that i had the pergola contractor come out a few days prior to mark the location of concrete footers between pool and equipment pad, as well as then blocking off the area with stakes and string, to be sure the plumbers avoided this area. I wanted nothing running under my future paver pad and outdoor kitchen.







02/24 - Steel: Despite low risk of expansive soil, I decided to upgrade the pool flooring to 6" on-center, as opposed to 12" which is standard for my area. It only cost me a few hundred extra and makes me feel much better since I never received a formal soil sample (not many in my region do...).

 

[pcollins22]

02/26 - 02/27 - Electric: All conduit ran from main panel to equipment pad. Intellicenter installed alongside pool equipment. So glad I decided to move the pad back a few feet toward the rear wall, this way it won't be visible from inside the house behind the pergola.




02/28 - Plumbing second visit: Plumbers returned to finish the plumbing of the spa therapies following steel being in.



02/29 - Gas install: Plumbers able to use the same trench as the one used for an extra electrical conduit placed for future car charger. Electricians were nice and dug this to 18" for the gas crew to utilize. Had plumbers add a stub for my future pizza oven and griddle in the outdoor kitchen. Heater connected. System put under pressure and passed city inspection the day following.




03/04 - Shotcrete: Planned for tomorrow! Upgrading to 4000PSI (most around here use 3000 or 3500) to give me extra piece of mind. Will update after complete.

 

[ajw22]

I would not have pointed the MasterTemp heater exhaust against the block wall. The heaters puts out a lot of heat. I would have put the exhaust towards the open area where the IntelliCenter panel is.

I cannot see the gas line into the heater clearly but it does not look like the recommended shape and a vertical sediment trap and a 90 degree bend into the heater. This design prevents sediment and water from getting into the gas valve and causing it to fail.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Appears to have a sediment trap installed.

 

[pcollins22]

Anyone know what a "45 degree" shotcrete step/seat edge should look like, to maximize the pebble strength in those areas?

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Something like this, the tools that are used for edges.