HELP!!! RE-PLUMBING A DISCONNECTED SOLAR HEAT SYSTEM

[jblizzle]

Starting to get it. To me I do not see where the solar is disconnected ... is it just disconnected up at the roof?

Ok now to start the speculation:
Since the skimmer is sucking good ( ) The white pipe next to the black cut-off on is obviously to the skimmer.
Can you check in the bottom of the skimmer if one of the 2 holes is capped?
The Black cut off pipe is probably the main floor, but sometimes the floor is plumbed to the bottom of the skimmer and then to the pump.

Water then goes from the top of the pump into the filter and then out to the brown 3-way valve.
That T with the cap on one end I have recently learned is a check valve (not sure why it would be there).
Have you tried turning that valve maybe 90 to see if water starts coming out a different place or see if the pressure in the filter starts climbing because that does not go anywhere?

With the brown valve like your picture, the water then goes up into the black 3-way with the actuator on it.
With the valve in the position in the picture, the water then goes through the pipe to the electrical box (through another T check valve?) and down into the ground and back to the pool
The white sliding valve with the cut pipe I would guess is just a way to drain water from the pool.

If you would rotate the black 3-way valve with actuator 180 degrees, water would then go down the other brown pipe heading to the solar (right next to the filter)
I think the little contraption by the filter is a flow meter.
The white bulb looking things are check valves.
So the water goes up to the solar at the corner of the house and then back down.
I can not see what the T is right at the bottom
Then there is a ball valve with a Red handle (probably just to isolate the solar when not used)
Then the "warm" water connects back to the pipe going down by the panel and to the pool.

The white ball valve by the black solar 3-way valve is a bypass so that you do not have to send ALL the water to the solar (currently it is closed). Technically you could accomplish the same thing by not turning the black actuated valve the full 180 degrees.

So that is your water flow ... everything looks OK to me besides the cut black pipe which may be the floor and where the brown 3-way diverts water too when turned. Honestly I am not even sure it is worth re-plumbing unless you want to just add the floor back (if that is what that pipe is).

I will let you digest that and shoot back any questions.

 

[Gandalf-Pool Wizard]

is this a pool spa combo? the returns would indicate a waterfall or spa return and both sides on the returns have the 90 ortega check valves... is the equipment below water level? or above? cause there is also a check valve on the abandon suction line...

It also looks like the solar is connected See my edit of the photo

 

[nanashana]

is this a pool spa combo? the returns would indicate a waterfall or spa return and both sides on the returns have the 90 ortega check valves... is the equipment below water level? or above? cause there is also a check valve on the abandon suction line...

It also looks like the solar is connected See my edit of the photo

Here is another attempt at a photo that you can zoom on. And as a matter of fact there is a waterfall that the previous owner does not remember how to control and I had a feeling that the waterfall was somehow controlled with the pool set-up. Yet another fixture I will need to get educated about..whew.
I went over to the pool today and was able to get 96% of the leaves and debris that was in the bottom of the pool. I trimmed back some of the more aggressive branches hanging over or laying in the pool and cleaned out the wall skimmer basket. I also set the timer to increase the filter cycle. Tomorrow I plan on using the leaf rake head with the hose to flush out any remaining debris from the bottom, then I intend to clean the filter cartridges and the housing in preparation for adding the necessary chemicals to get the water back. Its very green at the moment. If I wasn't sure it would "float" away if I drained it,that would be so much easier .

 

[jblizzle]

Have you digested my lengthy post from earlier today explaining what I think all the lines are?

Given that there is a waterfall, I would guess if you turn the brown valve it will start to flow.

The actuator on the black valve can be turned manually (might have to do a little procedure depending on the type of actuator), although if there are no panels on the roof, there would be no point ... other than to prove water goes up there. You may be able to run a hose down the black pipe (try to seal around the hose) and see if you can tell if water is flowing out of the floor drain. Understanding what is wrong with your solar controller/actuator might be a little more tricky.

Might be good for you to come back with some specific questions you have so we can try to address each of them.

EDIT: How about some pictures of the pool ... always nice to see the before and after pix :-D

 

[carlscan26]

So it looks like you have two suction pipes and three returns?

I think the thoughts on the disconnected MD are good. You'll want to test that line to see if it's even useable and not plugged in the pool which will be kind of tough to figure out... If it is useable then put a three way valve there so you can balance skimmer vs main drain.

FYI you'll want to remove the check valves on those suction pipes - they can create an entrapment problem. Put a check valve immediately after the filter or between the filter and the pump.

Speaking of that, I'd rearrange the layout so you don't have to have the pipe go around the top of the pump if possible - it seems like it would be a pain to clean the basket.

On the return side it sounds like one pipe goes to the waterfall and it's probably controlled by that brown valve. And then per your posts and the plumbing it sounds like there's two sets of returns one of which was used exclusively for solar in the past. I'd put the two of those on a three way valve and the you can control how all water is returned to the pool. This will also improve your system efficiency.

I think checking the MD will be the hardest part. Testing the returns is easy - just play with the valves and see which ones get water with the valves set to one or the other, etc.

Good luck!

 

[jblizzle]

Where do you see 3 returns?
There is the one in front of the filter at the brown valve (likely waterfall) and one right next to the electrical panel (main return). I do not see the 3rd (unless you are referring to the white cut off pipe with the slide valve ... although I think that was just a way to pump water out of the pool and not actually a return since there is nothing visible on the ground).

 

[carlscan26]

Oops - I missed the part where that white one with the slide valve is cut off.

But the OP mentioned there was a separate return for the solar it would make sense there would be three right? Maybe the third return line is buried?

 

[jblizzle]

Is that white one with the slide valve cut off? In the picture on the previous page it didn't look like it...but yeah that's what I was counting as #3. Also, because the OP mentioned there was a separate return for the solar it would make sense there would be three right?

I guess I was not counting the white pipe with the slide. I would only consider a run back to the pool as a "return" I guess. The solar loop combines with the main return by the electrical panel.

 

[carlscan26]

Is that white one with the slide valve cut off? In the picture on the previous page it didn't look like it...but yeah that's what I was counting as #3. Also, because the OP mentioned there was a separate return for the solar it would make sense there would be three right?

I guess I was not counting the white pipe with the slide. I would only consider a run back to the pool as a "return" I guess. The solar loop combines with the main return by the electrical panel.

I updated as you replied...I didn't notice it was cut ff. Please see my revised post.

 

[nanashana]

Well guys, the brown valve did in fact control the waterfall! I cleaned the filter cartridges with a high pressure nozzle and replaced them. Shop vac'd out the waterfall reservoir and fired it up! Now what do I do first to DE-GREEN the water! Since I am still in escrow I cannot deal with the plumbing yet! April 20th is the soonest I will be able to tackle that beast! But its close by and I have access so I can at least get the water clear with some help from tfp experts!

 

[linen]

Take a look at this poolschool article: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/defeating_algae It should get you started. If you want more detail, this post by JasonLion is great: http://www.troublefreepool.com/turning-your-green-swamp-back-into-a-sparkling-oasis-t4147.html

Let us know if you have questions.

 

[jblizzle]

So hopefully the plumbing was not as bad and confusing as you initially thought right

Still the question of the floor drain and whether the solar controller works and if the panels leak ... but that can be figured out later.

Check out the links provided and you could have it cleaned up in a few weeks if you have time and access ... very important to keep on top of it at the beginning of shocking or you are just wasting your time and $$. You have to hit it hard and often at the start.

You should probably order a test kit now before you start trying to clear the pool. You have time before you move in :-D

 

[nanashana]

The new house is 8 driveways away from the new one, so I have easy access. I dont have a complete kit yet (phenol & OTO)but the pool hasn't been this way for that long. When decided we wanted the house in Feb 2012, the water was still clear, but there was alot of debris and leaves in the deep end around and next to the main drain. There was snow on the ground. Then we had 2 weeks of 65+ weather, then more snow which is still melting...but more is due! Now the pool is very green. Free of debris (that I can see through the water)with rinsed filter cartridges. I noticed also when I opened the waterfall valve a port along the back wall of the pool bubbled off and on with the running of the waterfall, I did NOT check to see if that pressure changed with the setting of the valve, although I did notice that it controlled the flow of the waterfall effectively, fully open was extremely strong and more like a fountain! I do not think it was intended to have that much flow pressure through it because it is a smaller size pipe at the reservoir, which slows the flow(?) already. I don't want to damage the plumbing underneath it all by running it, do you think that is a danger, or do you think it can be ran without causing any damage?? In the meantime I will check out the links and get educated about the process. I guess the plumbing will have to wait, but I have a better idea of what it will take and more confidence knowing I have a sounding board with knowledge and experience to guide me along. THANK THE POOL GODS! Im sure I'll have some questions along the way with the water clearing process, for now I have some serious reading to do

 

[carlscan26]

I noticed also when I opened the waterfall valve a port along the back wall of the pool bubbled off and on with the running of the waterfall

Do you mean another return port/nozzle? I wonder if that's what they meant by a separate return for the solar - this was the other return but it's slaved to the waterfall? I'll be curious to see what you find if/when you dig around the pool pad some. But I'd bet those split off behind the waterfall somewhere.

It's fun playing detective on a pool huh?

Beautiful pool btw. I love the rock wall. Now, go read Pool School and go order a good test kit - see pool school for the ones we recommend. OK fine, here's the link: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/pool_test_kit_comparison

 

[jblizzle]

Yeah, that wall "return" with the water fall is interesting and will have to be investigated. At first I was thinking that maybe the black pipe was a separate suctions line for a removed waterfall pump and that the bubbling might prove it ... then I realized even if that was the case ... the return would would not be tied together with the suction line

 

[Gandalf-Pool Wizard]

the only negative to the waterfall is that it bypasses the Solar, ( if the solar is there and does not leak) ... do have have any good pics of the panels ( before it snows again).. would like to see if they were drained... if they have not been drained and with the snow... i would say the solar would be useless ( or at least looking like a sprinkler system when you send water that way)

the Folks here are giving you great advice.... so read read read...

G

 

[carlscan26]

I believe they are planning on redoing the pad so putting the waterfall after the solar should be easy to solve.

 

[nanashana]

You boys are all that!! I can see I stumbled into the right place! I will get those pics of the solar tomorrow weather permitting and I will get the test kit asap(after checking out the recommendations of course. Thanks guys, I believe I'm in good hands, until tomorrow then

 

[linen]

You boys are all that!! I can see I stumbled into the right place! I will get those pics of the solar tomorrow weather permitting and I will get the test kit asap

I would just go for the tf100, best bang for the buck.

 

[nanashana]

Okay guys heres something new...this afternoon I went over to check things out and to take pics of the solar. I set the filter to run 24/7 to begin the degreening process. After demonstrating the waterfall functions I shut it down. Today I had skimmed the leaves off the surface,while I was doing this I saw debris coming out of the wall port I originally noticed when I fired up the waterfall, I was checking the wall skimmer as requested to see if the infloor drain was connected to it and noticed I had no suction. When I checked the equipment I noticed 2 things, #1 there was steam coming off of the skimmer inlet to the pump and the pipe was hot to the touch. I shut the system down and instantly sprung a leak at the bend where the inlet goes into the pump. On a hunch I went home and checked the pics and realized I had left the brown valve in a different position, I had apparently shut down the waterfall & opened the solar! When I attempted to switch the actuated valve it wouldn't budge, it seems to be frozen. I am more confused now than I was before! Here are some pics of the solar and the section that sprung the leak