Help on how to prep for coping install around a steel panel pool

[Enzodast]

Good morning all!

I found an old thread where this was discussed but wanted to start a new one for better feedback. I have two questions i need help with....

Background: Pool is finished, been using it for months and we did it ourselves. It's a steel panel pool, vinyl liner, about 40x20 double roman. Around the pool currently i have about 12" of processed stone that's been compacted in layers.

1) Next year i want to install stone cantilever coping to overhang the pool edge slightly and then techobloc pavers around the entire pool area
- I do not have a concrete collar around the pool, is this necessary to install the coping? Can I just use mortar under the stones up onto the steel panel to fill the void between the processed stone and the coping stones? Or is the best way to install a collar, then use adhesive to install the stones?

2) I saw in the old post someone had steel rebar it looks like all around the pool, with rods every few feet and they were all bonded. Is this necessary for a paver block decking? When we had our inspector come out he said bonding on the surface was only needed if i was going to do a concrete deck with steel or wire mesh. The paver stone should all be non-conductive and when/IF i pour a thin collar i won't use rebar in there either.

Hard to find some of these answers on my own with the google machine, so you guys are always life savers, thank you!

 

[cowboycasey]

All in ground pools have to be bonded so you will need to have the bonding connected to any metal parts and under the deck ( any metal 5 feet from the pool I do believe) to include the water and pump... this is one of the bonding grid you will need under the deck all the way around the pool... Erico POOLMESH3100 Copper Pool Mesh 100-ft x 3-ft Caddy®

More people will be along to help with the stone

 

[jamjam]

i plan on doing the same thing - pool is not in yet, but i want to do cantilevered stone surround. My plan is to do crushed stone around the steel, then a concrete collar up to the level of the steel wall, then use a medium bed mortar for the stone coping. I assume your pool is already bonded, so unless you are introducing new metal within 5' of the pool it does not need any additional bonding.

I have no experience with pools, so this is just my preliminary plan. I will be paying attention to this thread.

 

[cowboycasey]

@jamjam

i plan on doing the same thing - pool is not in yet, but i want to do cantilevered stone surround. My plan is to do crushed stone around the steel, then a concrete collar up to the level of the steel wall, then use a medium bed mortar for the stone coping. I assume your pool is already bonded, so unless you are introducing new metal within 5' of the pool it does not need any additional bonding.

I have no experience with pools, so this is just my preliminary plan. I will be paying attention to this thread.

The deck also needs bonding not just the metal out to 5 feet

 

[jamjam]

@jamjam

The deck also needs bonding not just the metal out to 5 feet

How do you bond something that is not metal?

 

[cowboycasey]

You will put this under the deck completely around the entire pool and tie it into the bonding

Erico POOLMESH3100 Copper Pool Mesh 100-ft x 3-ft Caddy®

Erico Caddy® Pool mesh features 8-AWG solid conductor. The copper mesh with 12-Inch x 12-Inch grid spacing, measures 100-ft x 3 ft. It is suitable for equipotential bonding grids for swimming pool applications.

store.usesi.com

 

[jamjam]

what version of the NEC requires that?

 

[jamjam]

my electritian says all that is needed is a 8awg bare copper loop around the pool connected at 4 points that is then run the the equipment bonds as well as any other metal within 5' of the pool. I remember reading a mesh was required but then pulled from the code. Is it back in there again? Too much bonding confusion out there.

 

[cowboycasey]

my electritian says all that is needed is a 8awg bare copper loop around the pool connected at 4 points that is then run the the equipment bonds as well as any other metal within 5' of the pool. I remember reading a mesh was required but then pulled from the code. Is it back in there again? Too much bonding confusion out there.

And that is the question We always try to do a better job when recommending things here and the mesh is the better way to go.. That is what will be under my deck because I know it will be better than an 8 AWG copper wire around the pool.. as far as code where you are located I am not sure... I know the mesh costs more but you get what you pay for most times

 

[jamjam]

i think if you say something needs it, it is implied that the need is based on some standard, in this case code, otherwise it's just a suggestion. It might be a great suggestion, but as far as I can tell, and I could be wrong, there is no need to install a mesh grid to a non conductive deck, outside of the bonding grid already required for the pool itself.

 

[cowboycasey]

I know there is a requirement for concrete deck, I do not see any difference with any other deck... A deck is a deck but lets see if we can get someone else in here @JamesW what would you think about this?

 

[jamjam]

my understanding is that the metal reinforcement of a concrete deck needs to be attached to the grid, but that a mesh grid does not need to be added just for the purposes of bonding, where no metal reinforcement exists. This is my understanding of the code and I believe would be why OP's inspector is saying no grid is needed for his pavers, since the pool already has a single wire bonding loop. Again, I could be wrong, I am admittedly confused by the code.

 

[ckwinters]

We did pavers and did a single 8 gauge wire around the pool under the pavers attached at 4 points. Under the diving board and ladder concrete we do have rebar and mesh the copper wire is attached to.

 

[JamesW]

my electritian says all that is needed is a 8awg bare copper loop around the pool connected at 4 points that is then run the the equipment bonds as well as any other metal within 5' of the pool.

I suspect that your electrician knows what they are doing.

The grid might not be strictly required, but I would recommend it.

 

[Enzodast]

All in ground pools have to be bonded so you will need to have the bonding connected to any metal parts and under the deck ( any metal 5 feet from the pool I do believe) to include the water and pump... this is one of the bonding grid you will need under the deck all the way around the pool... Erico POOLMESH3100 Copper Pool Mesh 100-ft x 3-ft Caddy®

More people will be along to help with the stone

Thank you! I believe i only need this mesh if i want to re-enforce a concrete pad. I shouldn't need this if i'm laying pavers....so as of now only the metal all around the pool is bonded with the 8gauge wire (ladder, pump, several points of contact along the panels, the water is also bonded etc.)

 

[Enzodast]

my electritian says all that is needed is a 8awg bare copper loop around the pool connected at 4 points that is then run the the equipment bonds as well as any other metal within 5' of the pool. I remember reading a mesh was required but then pulled from the code. Is it back in there again? Too much bonding confusion out there.

I can confirm our code in connecticut and specifically middletown does not need this mesh. The deck would only need bonding if you're doing a concrete patio with steel/rebar reenforcement. Pavera/concrete/mortar (no metal) = no bonding required. so i'm good. still need a solve around this Dang coping and how to best handle...i can't afford the large grande stones but the cheaper techo-bloc bullnose cap is only about $4 a block locally. Much smaller....do those need to also be "glued" to a concrete collar or just mortared in right on top of the steel panel lip with 3/4" processed underneath? Will that hold?

 

[Enzodast]

so i'm good with the bonding...i'm doing pavera. no need to add a mesh blanket just for the sake of adding it all around the pool. The pool is properly bonded and there will be no additional metal added within 5 feet of the pool. Need to focus on this darn coping now and how to best handle the install of that....HELP!

 

[jamjam]

you might get away with a construction adhesive designed for stone and metal, but i think the best way to do it is with a concrete collar. I think this is how i am going to do it. I am hoping to use large format bluestone or large format pavers, depending on cost.

 

[JamesW]

Some people get stray currents felt when standing on the deck and reaching into the water. In these cases, most don’t have a deck grid. Stray current is rare, but I would highly recommend that you install the grid.

 

[Enzodast]

Some people get stray currents felt when standing on the deck and reaching into the water. In these cases, most don’t have a deck grid. Stray current is rare, but I would highly recommend that you install the grid.

I would only be able to connect the grid at one point to the existing loop, the ladder loop/copper is still exposed. All other wire is buried. So if i were to use this metal mesh under the pavers all around the pool, say one strip worth, can i tie those all together with metal ties and then bond ONLY at one point to the existing loop? or will it need multiple connections? i imagine one connection is better than none...