Help me spend my money: SWG, VSP, maybe automation

[extrabitter]

I’d like to replace my single-speed pump motor with a 3hp VSP. I’d also like to install an SWG. It sounds like now is also the right time to think about automation.

For the SWG:
For my 35k pool, it seems as if 60K gallons is the recommendation vs getting two 40k’s. I see 60k options from Pentair, Circupool, Pureline, Autopilot, and CMP. The Circupool and Pureline generates the most lbs per day (3.15 vs ~2 for the rest). The Circupool has the longest warranty (7y), the Pureline the cheapest to maintain ($650 replacements but OOS), and the Pentair might be the most recommended here.

On paper, it looks like the Circupool is the clearest winner and one of the more recommended options here.
However, with automation, the recommendation is to buy all of the same brand -- and the only choice for a 60k is Pentair.

Questions:
- What are the benefits to getting the same brand VSP and SWG, with respect to automation? What exactly might it control on the SWG?

Since the RJ-60+ produces 50% more lbs per day than the IC60, I'd like to see if these benefits outweigh simply buying the Circupool

The reasons I’d pay for automation so far -- I’d like to use my android phone to:
- change the pump’s schedule
- turn the heater on remotely (the Sta-Rite can use a 2 or 3 wire fireman switch)
- MAYBE turn the heater on based on water temperature or air temperature, within a time range (i.e. turn on the heater if it drops below 80 during the day, but not at night)

The pool light and pool robot are all controlled from my phone already with outdoor Kasa switches, no scheduling needed. The floor cleaner has no electronics.

More questions:
- What else might I want to consider doing with an automation system?
- And if I buy automation, which Pentair do I go with? The IntelliConnect, Easy Touch, or IntelliCenter? I do have a local installer that would help

Thanks so much!

PS - apologies if this is the wrong forum

 

[PoolStored]

And if I buy automation, which Pentair do I go with? The IntelliConnect, Easy Touch, or IntelliCenter? I do have a local installer that would help

this is a @Jimrahbe and @ajw22 question.

 

[ajw22]

Forget the EasyTouch. It is a 20+ year old system that Pentair has declared obsolete.

If your needs stay within the limitations of the IntelliConnect then it may be fine for you.

Otherwise the IntelliCenter is modular and expandable as your needs change over time.

I recommend you have a Pentair VS pump and an IntelliChlor SWG with Pentair automation to get the maximum benefits from the integration.

Read Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

What else might I want to consider doing with an automation system?

Do you have any Jandy style valves that you would like to control with actuators?

 

[extrabitter]

Do you have any Jandy style valves that you would like to control with actuators?

No, there are no valves

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Look at IntelliConnect. It may suit your needs for a fraction of the cost of other systems. It will not control actuators though, so not the right choice if you plan to upgrade in the future.

 

[generessler]

A small thing on the salt cell: It's daily demand plus pool size that determine load on the cell. Lots of discussion here is among people in very sunny states. For Massachusetts, demand will be smaller. If you use liquid chlorine currently, you probably have a feel for how much is consumed per day at summer peak. About 2ppm maybe? For your pool, 1ppm is 0.3 pounds of chlorine. So 2ppm is .6 pounds. This cool chart shows pounds per day (at 100%) generated by a bunch of brands. The big cells like CP and Pentair will need only about 20% of their full 24-hour capacity to handle 2 ppm. And almost any cell will do the job.

Of course bigger is better for longevity and flexibility to run the pump fewer hours. And a longer warranty is nice. But solid integration with the rest of the pool is (imo) a huge convenience. If it were me, I (as a Jandy automation owner) would go all Pentair.

One other note is that there are threads here indicating that maybe CP gilds the lily a bit in their capacity specs. Still a good cell though.

 

[extrabitter]

No snark intended, this is truly a dumb user question. It sounds like with either of the SWGs they're kind of dumb and you set the device to a % of chlorine output -- in the beginning it's trial and error, but once it's setup, it's adjusted infrequently.

How does automation improve the performance of the SWG? Instead of having it on whichever % all day long, is it simply that you lower it at night and increase it during the day when you know usage will be higher? Doesn't that net you the same chlorine production in the end? Or does it do something based on the weather, when it's rainy/cloudy it lowers chlorine generation but on a hot sunny day it increases?

 

[ajw22]

No snark intended, this is truly a dumb user question. It sounds like with either of the SWGs they're kind of dumb and you set the device to a % of chlorine output -- in the beginning it's trial and error, but once it's setup, it's adjusted infrequently.

You have to adjust your SWG % output every few weeks as the sun angle changes and your daily FC loss increases or deceases.

I tweak my SWG % every 2 to 3 weeks to keep my FC in range.

How does automation improve the performance of the SWG? Instead of having it on whichever % all day long, is it simply that you lower it at night and increase it during the day when you know usage will be higher? Doesn't that net you the same chlorine production in the end? Or does it do something based on the weather, when it's rainy/cloudy it lowers chlorine generation but on a hot sunny day it increases?

The SWG is more dumb then you think.

All the things you describe are up to you to do my pressing the button.

It is a luxury item for me to have some time in the evening to look at my FC test trends and figure out I need to raise or lower the SWG % by a few percent and do it from my desktop PC or phone or ipad rather then walking downstairs and out and the hike to my pool equipment pad to press the buttons there.

It gives me more time to discuss equipment needs with nice folks on TFP.

 

[extrabitter]

A small thing on the salt cell: It's daily demand plus pool size that determine load on the cell. Lots of discussion here is among people in very sunny states. For Massachusetts, demand will be smaller. If you use liquid chlorine currently, you probably have a feel for how much is consumed per day at summer peak. About 2ppm maybe? For your pool, 1ppm is 0.3 pounds of chlorine. So 2ppm is .6 pounds. This cool chart shows pounds per day (at 100%) generated by a bunch of brands. The big cells like CP and Pentair will need only about 20% of their full 24-hour capacity to handle 2 ppm. And almost any cell will do the job.

Of course bigger is better for longevity and flexibility to run the pump fewer hours. And a longer warranty is nice. But solid integration with the rest of the pool is (imo) a huge convenience. If it were me, I (as a Jandy automation owner) would go all Pentair.

One other note is that there are threads here indicating that maybe CP gilds the lily a bit in their capacity specs. Still a good cell though.

That's a great point to figure out how much I actually use, thanks!

I'm probably closer to 4-6ppm in the summer (2 kids, 2 dogs, 2 adults, + friends, debris from the trees, bugs, frogs, etc.). We go through about 20G (four 5lb jugs) of 12% chlorine every 2-3 weeks, depending on usage and remembering to put on the solar cover. On the high end, I think 6ppm for 35k is around 2 lbs per day, at least according to what I think I see in poolmath?

The last trip to the store was $136 for those 4 jugs, nevermind my wife unintentionally bleaching her shirt, which is why an SWG sounds like a great idea right now!

 

[generessler]

No snark intended, this is truly a dumb user question. It sounds like with either of the SWGs they're kind of dumb and you set the device to a % of chlorine output -- in the beginning it's trial and error, but once it's setup, it's adjusted infrequently.

No worries. This is a great question. The answer is a bit subtle.

Indeed unless you have something like Intellichem that measures FC and makes automatic changes, the cell is "dumb" as you say.

The main reason for integration is that - for safety, avoiding hydrogen explosion hazard - the cell must be wired so that it's turned on only if the pump is on and generating enough flow. When the VSP is controlled by automation through the usual RS-485 link, making this happen can be tricky unless the automation is handling it.

Another user-side reason is to be able to set the per cent level with the same internet app used for the rest of the system and have it displayed in the same dashboard view. E.g. I actually end up tweaking the cell per cent up to a couple of times a week especially in spring and fall as day length is changing. Also as storms roll through . A separate app would be annoying. And not having an app at all a nonstarter.