Help me decide between two bids

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C

Chungus

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Jul 14, 2019
58
Texas
We are looking to build a 18x40 rectangular pool with an automatic cover and a 3.5/4' depth to 5' with a 10' deep hopper on one end for diving.

We have two local pool builders both are reputable. We honestly have good feelings about both of them.

I have received quotes from both and they are within 4% of each other however they have different brands of items and we don't fully understand what everything is so we are unsure which is truly the better deal. Any advice would be appreciated. I left the prices off but for comparison sake lets just assume they are the same. Which would you prefer and why?

Builder A:

Our gunite swimming pools are built with the highest quality materials and design features. While some pool contractors will cut corners, We build every pool with all rebar placed on 8”-10” centers for a structurally superior shell. Our standard pools include travertine coping rather than concrete or brick products. Our standard lights are LED white lights rather than incandescent lights. Our standard interior finish is a Quartz product rather than regular Marcite plaster. All of our equipment components are Pentair products and come with a 1 to 3 year warranty. We are a certified Pentair service center, giving us the ability to more efficiently service our customers.
Swimming Pool:
Gunite swimming pool – 18’ x 40
4’ – 10’ depth (10’ hopper under platform)
Bahama ledge (6” water) in combination with steps
2 fountains and 1 umbrella receptacle in the Bahama ledge
Bench with step-out in the shallow and deep end of the pool Additional step-outs and benches at customer’s request
6” waterline tile (upgrade options available)
12”x 24” travertine coping
Level 1 quartz interior finish (upgrade options available) 2-Pentair LED white lights
1-2.0 hp Pentair whisperflow pump
1- Pentair TR100 sand filter
Pentair Mastertemp 400,000 BTU natural gas heater (or propane) Pentair IC40 Intellichlor automatic salt system
Pentair automatic filler
2 High Flow Skimmers
Timer/Freeze Control
Minimum of 5 return lines with eyeball fittings
Main drains consist of an anti-vortex, anti-entrapment VGB compliant 32” channel drains We are the only local swimming pool contractor currently providing this safety measure
Dedicated Vacuum Line that is VGB compliant with a spring-loaded door
All plumbing is run in 2” and 2.5” Schedule 40 PVC for ultimate water turnover rate Net/Pool Vacuum/Brush/Pole
Start-up chemicals
Test kit
Full orientation of all equipment
4’ of stamped, integral colored concrete deck is included with pool installation Additional concrete is available at $8.00 per square foot
COVER: Automatic pool cover – exclusive vinyl fabric formula reinforced with mesh for strength and resistance provides maximum durability. Power touch security control pad instead of a switch. Custom cover stones instead of an aluminum lid.
SPA: Interior spa with 8 jets, air blower, 2.5 HP variable speed, high efficiency Pentair pump, 1 Pentair LED white light and a VGB compatible main drain
AUTOMATION: Pentair Easy Touch 4 Function automation load center panel with actuators and wireless remote control with charging base


Builder B:

18' x 40' Rectanglular shaped gunite swimming pool
3.5'- 5'- 10' Depth
Bahama ledge with step-outs (Fountain and umbrella sleeve in bahama bench)
Additional step-out's and benches at customers request at no additional charge
6" waterline tile)
White or Blue Standard Plaster Finish
Hayward Tristar 2.0hp for pool, 36" sand filter
Hayward Automatic Chlorinator
2 - Hayward 500w light for pool
12"X24" Pre-Cast Coping
Dual Drains, 4 returns
Automatic Filler
2 High Flow Skimmers and a dedicated Vacuum Line
4' Salt Finish Concrete Decking Around Pool ( Additional concrete at $3.75 per square foot) Net/Pole/Pool Vacuum/Brush
Test Kit
All Start-up Chemicals
All Utilities furnished to pool equipment area by others - Not included in bid
Licensed Electrician to supply electric panel to equipment and do hookup - Not included in bid Licensed Plumber to hook-up gas line and gas heater- Not included in bid
Excluding any utility relocates
Excluding any sprinkler repairs or relocates
Should equipment be located indoors, venting of equipment to be done by others

INCLUDED OPTIONS
Option 1: Coverstar Automatic Cover, Lid to be Stainless Steel
Option 2: Upgrade to Tahoe Blue Quartz Plaster Finish
Option 3: 8' spa to be contained in pool
8 jets
1 - 2.0 Hayward Booster Pump 1 - 2hp Silencer Air Blower
1 - 100w Hayward Light
1 - 400K BTU Hayward Heater
Option 4:Hayward Omni Logic Automation
Option 5: Led Lights for Pool and Spa
Option 6: Upgrade to Travertine Coping
Option 7: Hayward Heat Pump
 
First bid seems to be more complete. The gas line could cost anywhere from $1k-$5k to run and install. I would lock that down before accepting any bid. $3.75 is dirt cheap for concrete but $8 is also a great price. You will probably want/need a good 400 more sq feet.
 
Thank you. I left out a few details. We are in the country on 25 acres. I have a fair amount of heavy equipment myself. Dozer, excavator, skid steer, etc. I don't plan on participating on the actual pool construction but I will likely help with doing things like running electric and gas lines. We will be using a propane tank as we have no gas service available at our location.

And you are correct on the concrete. We will definitely be adding more. $3.75/sq ft is about what I have been paying for just basic concrete around my place. He have thousands of square feet of it for our shops, driveways, etc. I think the $3.75 is a basic concrete though where the $8 is a stamped decorative finish.
 
Question....
I'm actually getting quotes myself for a 20x40 and 18x40 freeform pools. I want a diving area, and my PB quoted me for only 8' deep. He said i could go deeper if i wanted, but would do two things.... One add to the cost, and two it would make my slope longer which would cut into how much shallow end i would end up with. My question for you, is do you know how much of your 40' is deep end, slope, and then shallow???
 
GosuPaintballer said:
Question....
I'm actually getting quotes myself for a 20x40 and 18x40 freeform pools. I want a diving area, and my PB quoted me for only 8' deep. He said i could go deeper if i wanted, but would do two things.... One add to the cost, and two it would make my slope longer which would cut into how much shallow end i would end up with. My question for you, is do you know how much of your 40' is deep end, slope, and then shallow???
Click to expand...

We are doing it an awkward way. They originally wanted 10' of the 10' deep, 15' to slope up to the 5' , and then the last 15' of the pool 4-5'. We are not going to have a diving board and instead are going to have a jump platform and it will be oriented such that you are jumping in the 18' direction. We are going to have a 10' deep hole on the end of the pool maybe 12'-15' wide and then a near vertical slope up to 5'. This would not work if you wanted to dive in from the end as you would likely hit your head at the slope but the way we are designing it people will not be jumping in that way.
 
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I would go for Bid A. I like Pentair equipment.

Except I would change the SWG to an IC60. By my calculations your pool will be over 30,000 gallons. We recommend capacity SWG be 2X the pool size. An IC40 would be marginal for your pool.

I don't know why they propose the Pentair whisperflow pump for the main pool pump. You should get an Intelliflo 011028 variable speed pump there.

For the spa they propose "2.5 HP variable speed, high efficiency Pentair pump ". That is ok but get the model number pump. You really don't need a VS pump on the SPA. That is more the pump they should have proposed for the main pool pump.

"Timer/Freeze Control" - that is built into the pumps and ET4 (or Intellicenter automation) - what additional are they installing and why?

I would also ask about getting the Pentair Intellicenter instead of the ET4. The Intellicenter is Pentair newest automation. ET4 is getting long on the tooth.

Get model number of all equipment - pumps, filters, lights, air blowers.

Specify all pipes, valves, switches will be labeled. You would be surprised how many times we see pool equipment pads with nothing labeled.

More then you asked for. Good luck with the build.
 
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Builder B is very confusing what do they mean by "INCLUDED OPTIONS" ? And are they in the quoted price? For example they talk about:
Plaster or Quartz , which is it?
Hayward Heater 400K BTU heater and also a Heat Pump which is it?
1- 100 Watt light for the spa or Option 5 Led lights for pool and spa, which is it?

I would not trust a builder that is not responsible for the gas and electric install, that puts all the burden on you (time and cost) to get subs lined up permits, inspections, etc.

Builder A for sure
 
I dont know how much space you have, or how big your budget is. But you are gonna want alot more patio. I went 5ft on 2 sides and 4 ft will be tight for 2 people to pass each other. I went 9 ft on the stairs side and diving board side. 9 ft is plenty for the diving board area but gets tight quick on the side we lounge on. I built a table when i couldnt find one to fit the 9x9 corner. My 5ft square table barely leaves room for chairs. A 6 ft lounge chair will leave 3 ft for people to walk by it. At the time we were so over budget, it was a stretch to get that much patio. So i get it if you stay short. But i often wish i got at least 5 more feet on the lounge side. Its more economical to expand the shallow end side but the long side is between my pool and house so thats where we went bigger.
 
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If you go with builder A with Pentair equipment, you should change the automation to IntelliCenter. It’s Pentair’s latest. Should be about the same price too.
 
Even though my build is going to be all Hayward (except for valves, they are Jandy) and I don't personally like Travertine the first bid is definitely the more complete bid. As for equipment some people like Hayward, some like Pentair but both are about the same reliability overall if you do a lot of research. I am just building my pool but I am a very picky test engineer, so I researched the living crud out of the equipment anyway.

I also got 5 bids before I decided and the jury is still out if I picked the right contractor. I suggest if you can look at pools those builders built in your neighborhood, please try to do that. I liked the finished products of the one I picked better than most of the others based on a sample size of several pools.
 
Rattus Suffocatus said:
I suggest if you can look at pools those builders built in your neighborhood, please try to do that. I liked the finished products of the one I picked better than most of the others based on a sample size of several pools.
Click to expand...
I want to amplify that statement, as I dont think enough people interviewing PB's realize what an important part of the process it is. Most PB's can look and sound good on paper. Ask to see other pools he/she built locally, and if possible, talk to the owners about their build experience. Doing that could either confirm your good impression of the PB, or save you a lot of aggrevation and money down the road.
 
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BMK said:
I want to amplify that statement, as I dont think enough people interviewing PB's realize what an important part of the process it is. Most PB's can look and sound good on paper. Ask to see other pools he/she built locally, and if possible, talk to the owners about their build experience. Doing that could either confirm your good impression of the PB, or save you a lot of aggrevation and money down the road.
Click to expand...

Can't amplify this enough. Tell them you would like to see some of there older pools as well 5-10 yrs or more. This will show you how there work holds up. It is also the best way to see the finish of the pool you are interested in and make sure the water color is to your liking.
 
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Also, Ask if you can be one of the people they give out for references. My PB asked me if we would be that person and I had no clue it was a thing until he asked. I immediately said yes figuring I might get some extra care if they knew we’d have an ongoing relationship. I can’t say I got anything extra out of the deal. But I was 110% happy with the quality and workmanship.
 
Tres Gatos said:
Builder B is very confusing what do they mean by "INCLUDED OPTIONS" ? And are they in the quoted price? For example they talk about:
Plaster or Quartz , which is it?
Hayward Heater 400K BTU heater and also a Heat Pump which is it?
1- 100 Watt light for the spa or Option 5 Led lights for pool and spa, which is it?

I would not trust a builder that is not responsible for the gas and electric install, that puts all the burden on you (time and cost) to get subs lined up permits, inspections, etc.

Builder A for sure
Click to expand...

I apologize as part of this confusion is my fault. Builder A only quoted it one way with pretty much no options. Builder B had a base quote which was nearly 30k less than builder A's quote but then they had an entire page of options and costs. I chose the options which seemed to make the quotes more apples to apples and removed the price and put "included".
The end result was the cost of Builder B's pool with the added options was shockingly similar to Builder A's pool and I think we are comparing very similar features.
 
I had a similar situation. Builder A said upfront that he wouldn’t spare an expense for quality purposes. Builder B was much lower for basic but everything else was and upgrade. We chose builder A and every time I called about an ‘upgrade’ in the brochure (liner thickness, pattern, diving board and equipment) he replied that they weren’t upgrades cuz he already factored them in. Builder B would have seemed like a great deal but become sticker shock at build time. We also had a C and D and they were somewhere in the middle of A and B. Ultimately we figured we could trust builder A to do all the things we knew nothing about at the time and it was piece of mind.
 
I know a guy who is on his third Builder A pool. He moves a lot for whatever reason.This guy used to work with my dad and is the one who recommended Builder A to me.

I am in a rural area with most houses on 5 acres or more so not a lot of houses close together but but Builder B probably has a half dozen pools within a mile of me. He mentioned the names of several people who I am acquainted with that are my "neighbors" and have his pools.

We are not in a huge area and both these outfits have a good reputation.
 
Then you probably can’t go wrong either way. Either pay up front or get there anyway.

Being 100% confident in multiple builders is a great problem to have.
 

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