Help identifying a check valve

[frisbieproductions]

Hi,

My in-ground spa has what I was told is an Ortega check valve. This system has been in place for 30 years, and I'm in a situation where I'm trying to DIY/get pool companies to come help get it up and running properly.

The spa lets water out back into the pool after the system finishes running. I was told that it's because of the check valve, but two different pool companies say they've never seen something like this before.

I'm also concerned about my popups not popping up all the way AND not rotating. They're popping up more now that I replaced my 30-year-old filter, at least, but they don't rotate. I recently replaced the popups for new ones.

Any advice here would be extremely appreciated!

 

[Jimrahbe]

j,

The check valve will be at your equipment pad, not out by the spa... The Ortega looks like a PVC 'T' fitting with what looks like a knob at one end.

Show us some equipment pad pics.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dodger]

Are you talking about pop-ups with an in-floor system? You probably need to fill out your signature and tell everyone about your equipment.

The spa is elevated over the pool?

If in-floor, do you know what brand? If you don't, a picture of your equipment will help identify it.

 

[ps0303]

Do you have something like this on your system?



If that is an Ortega check valve, the top should screw off to get at the plunger inside.

 

[frisbieproductions]

Hey,


Sorry - I waited to be notified that my post was approved, and never received anything. As I mentioned, I'm new to the pool.



What is the equipment pad - are you asking for a picture of all the equipment?

Here's what I know about my system: I have a Jandy caretaker that works the in-floor pop-up system. It is the older model that relies on pressure to turn the popups. The popups do not rotate - they only spray in one direction. I recently replaced the bell portion of the caretaker, o-rings, and the popups as well. I just had a Jacuzzi 420 installed that replaced a 30-year-old DE filtration system. The pressure to the pool is definitely better - pop-ups going up more than before. I'm also using an Intelliflo variable speed pump, easytouch, and screenlogic (although that is working intermittently..another problem).

The spa is elevated above the pool, yes. My only guess is the water is going back into the pool once the filter turns off.


IF it is an ortega valve, what do I need to do to replace it?

THANKS in advance!

 

[Dodger]

With an in-floor system, you should have 2 check valves. One will be on the spa-only plumbing loop. The other will be on the spa port of your Caretaker valve. I wouldn't change the Ortega unless you have good reason to think it is causing the problem.

Pictures of your equipment will be really helpful, both the main equipment area and the area around the Caretaker valve. Is the Caretaker above ground, or flush with the ground?

What pressure do you read on the Caretaker gauge? Was that gauge replaced when you swapped out the dome? If the Caretaker pressure is too low, say below ~12psi, that probably won't lift the pop-ups enough for them to clear the teeth and rotate. With a VSP, you'll have to run a higher rpm cycle for the pop-ups to consistently rotate.

 

[Pool Clown]

IF it is an ortega valve, what do I need to do to replace it?

THANKS in advance!

Yes, that is an Ortega check valve. Look at the picture that Paul posted. There used to be two different kits available. One kit had the spring and the spool (the part under the spring). The other kit you got just the spool.

This is an old valve. And, for what ever reason, the most critical part, the spool or seat assembly, is the first part of the valve that is being discontinued. Last time i needed to get one, It was difficult to find, and stupid expensive. Also, there are two different sizes 1 1/2" and 2". Make sure you know which size you have. From your picture, I would GUESS you have a 2". BUT YOU WILL NEED TO VERIFY THIS. IOW take it apart and measure it!


Good luck

 

[frisbieproductions]

With an in-floor system, you should have 2 check valves. One will be on the spa-only plumbing loop. The other will be on the spa port of your Caretaker valve. I wouldn't change the Ortega unless you have good reason to think it is causing the problem.

Pictures of your equipment will be really helpful, both the main equipment area and the area around the Caretaker valve. Is the Caretaker above ground, or flush with the ground?

What pressure do you read on the Caretaker gauge? Was that gauge replaced when you swapped out the dome? If the Caretaker pressure is too low, say below ~12psi, that probably won't lift the pop-ups enough for them to clear the teeth and rotate. With a VSP, you'll have to run a higher rpm cycle for the pop-ups to consistently rotate.

I'm not sure how the Caretaker could be flush, so I'm going to assume above.

Pictures (hope you can see, below). I JUST cleaned the NEW jacuzzi 420 (it was pretty bad, actually). The pressure was crazy high on the filter.

Now that I cleaned it, it's currently running on the lower pressure.

If I have a schedule from 6-2, what is the optimal setting? Right now, it's running higher speed only between 10-12. Waterfall works strong then.

Thanks!



- - - Updated - - -

Yes, that is an Ortega check valve. Look at the picture that Paul posted. There used to be two different kits available. One kit had the spring and the spool (the part under the spring). The other kit you got just the spool.

This is an old valve. And, for what ever reason, the most critical part, the spool or seat assembly, is the first part of the valve that is being discontinued. Last time i needed to get one, It was difficult to find, and stupid expensive. Also, there are two different sizes 1 1/2" and 2". Make sure you know which size you have. From your picture, I would GUESS you have a 2". BUT YOU WILL NEED TO VERIFY THIS. IOW take it apart and measure it!


Good luck

Do I need to purchase the entire assembly, or just the spool or seat? Anything else I need to do know about taking it apart? Is this an easy enough repair I can do myself?

It's great to know the pool company in my area has no idea what valve it was...

 

[Dodger]

Looks like your Caretaker valve is just a few inches above hardscape, though a closer picture would help. If there is no way to access a check valve at the bottom of that Caretaker, then perhaps they did plumb it out by the spa. The other guys here can comment on whether that design is feasible.

To confirm which of the 2 check valves is leaking, it would help to know if you have a bypass valve for the Caretaker. If you can close that off and the spa level no longer drops, then it is definitely the check valve on your Caretaker line that is leaking by.

The other issue is not enough pressure for your pop-ups to rise all the way and rotate. If you can, report filter pressure reading and corresponding Caretaker pressure reading (both should go up and down as the Caretaker cycles every minute or so.)

 

[frisbieproductions]

Looks like your Caretaker valve is just a few inches above hardscape, though a closer picture would help. If there is no way to access a check valve at the bottom of that Caretaker, then perhaps they did plumb it out by the spa. The other guys here can comment on whether that design is feasible.

To confirm which of the 2 check valves is leaking, it would help to know if you have a bypass valve for the Caretaker. If you can close that off and the spa level no longer drops, then it is definitely the check valve on your Caretaker line that is leaking by.

The other issue is not enough pressure for your pop-ups to rise all the way and rotate. If you can, report filter pressure reading and corresponding Caretaker pressure reading (both should go up and down as the Caretaker cycles every minute or so.)

So the original pictures at the top of this post show the Ortega valve right by the spa. I'll take a few more shots later when the system is running so that I can report the pressure. Thanks for your help so far with trying to troubleshoot this.

Question: I was trying to get that Ortega valve cap off - it is seemingly cemented right in place. Is that normal? I don't want to break it trying to get it off, but it is not budging.

 

[Dodger]

I guess my angle is to try to prove that Ortega is the problem before trying to remove it. Since it is hard to access, hard to source, and hard to replace, wouldn't it be great if it wasn't the check valve that is leaking?

 

[frisbieproductions]

I guess my angle is to try to prove that Ortega is the problem before trying to remove it. Since it is hard to access, hard to source, and hard to replace, wouldn't it be great if it wasn't the check valve that is leaking?

That would be fantastic. To do that, I'm guessing I'd need to call the pool pro out here, yeah? Or are there any other common spots I can check on my own first?

 

[Dodger]

It's possible the 2 companies you already had out have isolated this. But TFPers like to understand what's happening to their own pool.

As I mentioned, you should have 2 check valves. A close-up picture of your Caretaker area would be helpful to see if we can isolate/bypass the Caretaker plumbing. The pic you posted in the top right corner of your picture collage is far away and kind of small. It looks like you may have a manual valve that allows you to close off the Caretaker return and divert it to one of the other down pipes. Can you post a close up of the 4 lines coming up/down next to the Caretaker? If they are labeled, indicate the labels.

What I am thinking is we close the Caretaker off and then see if/how much the spa drains when the pump is off.

Next up, we should locate and photograph the other check valve, which should be below your actuated return valve at the equipment pad. It is usually on the spa return side of that valve. Just want to make sure that's a more normal plumbing setup or see if anything looks funny there. Or if it is possible the remote Ortega is part of THAT return plumbing.

Hope this makes sense....

 

[Pool Clown]

Do I need to purchase the entire assembly, or just the spool or seat? Anything else I need to do know about taking it apart? Is this an easy enough repair I can do myself?

Once you get the lid off, you will be able to tell if the spring is still in good shape. From the picture, it doesn't look cemented in. The cap is only about 5/8-3/4 of an inch deep. If they had cemented (glued) the cap on, they may as well have concreted, or buried the whole thing, right? An oring in the cap seals the water out, so it should loosen with a little elbow grease and some thought as to how to get any tools in there to grip it.

You may be able to get a big enough Crescent wrench in there and get it to catch on the ridges of the cap, then get a big long screw driver or a piece of re-bar to put through the hole in the end of the Crescent wrench. Or if you can find a large enough "faucet or basin wrench?" i think thats what they call it? or some channel lock pliers? That thing is in there kinda deep.

never seen a basin wrench that big though...

About testing the separate check valves.

If that CareTaker valve in your pic is above water level, you can loosen one or both of the unions near it and break the siphon (with the pump off of course). That would take that check valve out of the equation and you would be only testing the one in the deck...

Or is the CareTaker check valve the one in the deck?

See, There is no real "standardized" way to plumb a pool. It is pretty much left up to the plumber/builder. And some "in-floor" cleaners run off the filter, and some have their own pump. You have a raised spa, so you need 1 check valve for the filtered water that goes back to the spa, and perhaps another if the in-floor cleaner has its own pump.

If you could re-post the pic from post#8 but only the picture in the upper right-hand corner. We might be able to identify the plumbing