Help. First time pool owner in Nassau County, NY.

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Does slow vac to waste mean vacuuming to waste with the water hose attached to vac plate while skimmer valve is on only and drain valve almost off, while moving the vacuum slowly as to not shake things up? Can I do this before the deep end clears?
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Yes, but with drain valve completely closed. Ideally, AFTER much of cloudiness has settled.

Try to post a pic of the pool today so we can see what's going on.

For dosing, if cya was 35 (rounding up to 40), I'd use 20 ppm as my upper limit, which is approaching mustard shock level. Avoid going too much higher to preserve your liner.
 
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Ok. I'll try to keep FC level around 20. FC-14 is too low to kill the algae with CYA at 35-40?
If the links work, the first pic shows most of the pool with a closeup of the steps.
The 2nd pic is a closeup of the pool in the deep water.
 
FC-14 is too low to kill the algae with CYA at 35-40?[\quote]

No, but you were already dosing higher so I wanted to give you what I view to be the high limit. I do believe than in swamp recovery a slam level closer to mustard (but under) is generally a bit more effective to make sure algae never gets ahead.

I'm seeing slow but steady improvement in your clarity. Might want to just keep going as you are another day before stirring it up with slow vac, but that's your call ;)
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I agree with Swampwoman.

I had a mustard outbreak a mere 2 weeks before my last home went on the market.
(from letting the chlorine down to 1 for that cya reducer which didn't really do much)

I could not take any chances the pool would look anything but TFP sparkling.

So, though it might be considered wasteful, I actually ran mustard shock
levels the entire time. This pool was plaster so I wasn't worried about a liner issue.

Desperate times = desperate measures.

oh and the pool was gorgeous on the open house weekend.
Lots of "I can't believe how clear the water is" comments.
 
Ok. So I'll try not to let the FC drop below 20. There is another issue. The plastic cover that is on top of the pump basket is missing an O-ring.
Pool Amateur mentioned that's probably why the skimmers make a suction sound and the pressure gauge loses pressure and regains it less than a minute later.
 
You definitely want to pick up an O-ring a.s.a.p. That will improve your filtering.

Re: FC level...I wasn't suggesting not to let it drop below 20 (though keeping near may be helpful). I was suggesting to dose TO 20 from whatever reading you have when you check. That way you should stay ABOVE the regular slam recc, but a bit below mustard slam level.

I'd said this only because you earlier referred to ADDING more chlorine when the reading was already at 20 ppm, in which case you were adding too much.

In a slam, you calculate how much you need to add based on your reading using pool math. You do this every few hours at the beginning, and preferably approx 3 times a day once the FC is holding better - dictated by how long it goes before dropping more than you want. Please review slam instructions if that didn't make sense, and forgive the repetition if it does ;)

In short, every addition requires the FC test, calculation of how much to add to get to your level (in this case the upper limit of 20) based on the Pool Math link in pool school. I wasn't sure if you were clear on this because it sounded like you were just automatically adding a certain number of jugs each time you checked.

Maybe tomorrow post the time of test, result of test, and amount added each time so we can see over the course of a day how much FC is getting used and how often you're testing. That info will help us understand the green better. We have to be able to determine that you're actually following the slam correctly so we can figure out the green ;)

We know your slam progress was stalled previously by the broken laterals. We now need to see progress via color change and in order to be giving you the best advice and ruling out other effects. So I just eed to be sure nothing was lost in translation during the distraction of the filter issue...

Green is not always algae (though it usually is)...sometimes its metal.

So, to review:

- filter was fixed by Saturday, but Sunday you stirred things up vac'ing and brushing
- filter continues to operate better at a baseline around 16 now
- shallow end grew visible though not entirely clear by Monday night. Sand is visible.
- sides and seams now increasing in visibility
- your reports suggest you haven't dropped below slam level for about 29 days now
- however, you're not really getting the color change we'd normally expect...deep end is still a little oeas soupish...which makes me a teeny but nervous that the calculation might somehow be off...

Next time you test, can you please do 10 mil sample and divide by two just to double check?

I have a 4 am day tomorrow so I've got to go but I'm going to noodle on where were at. Please pst pcs tomorrow from same position.
 
Okay, George, I'm still up and now I remember something that was bothering me but from which I was distracted ;)

Way earlier in this thread did you report that TA reading was 30?

Did you adjust it with baking soda at all?

Sometimes very low alkalinity can give water a green tint. Perhaps we should try to rule that out by having you add enough baking soda to get to say 60 ppm - but don't overshoot.
 
Thanks for the extra checks, Swampwoman.

I will buy the O-ring tomorrow.
On June 7th at 6:44PM I wrote this about TA. "During the TA, the sample turned pink at 70. It stayed the same shade of pink until I stopped at 130. The test kit shows the color should change from green to red. Is turning pink good enough? If not then I have an extremely high TA."
So it appears that my TA is 70?

Pool Amateur mentioned there's a small chance I may have a bad spider gasket but there is no leak coming from the waste port. Any other way I can tell if I need a new one?
He also mentioned that the valve that is connected to the lines may have another pump connected to it which means I may be using well water. There is an additional pump there. Please see photo form yesterday at 1:25PM.

Yes, I will do the 10ml sample next time.
I read that liquid cholrine should be added at sunset to get the maximum effect. I have been adding all the chlorine in one setting between 6-8PM every night. I always take the test right before I add the chlorine. After the FC tested at 22 tonight, I added 5 gallons slowly, over the deep return. So I should do another chlorine test after I add chlorine? about 1 hour later? I see how adding 5 gallons of 12.5% chlorine would raise my FC to about 38 for the night. So I should not add any until sometime during the next day?
Your review is spot on.
 
Hi George,
Yes, get o-ring first thing in am, install and while installing check the impeller to be sure it looks good. This could be a major improvement in circulation depending on how frequently it has been doing this. Also, if it does not stop after installing o-ring, let us know. When the pump is on, the pressure should remain very constant and only go up very slightly over a long period, If it was at 15 after laterals were fixed, then at 18-19 time to backwash. Should never go down while pump is running. and should never have air once pump is primed.

Also more pics of plumbing, something still is not right. If the valve between pump and heater(in picture, not schematically) only has 1 pipe entering and 1 pipe exiting I see no possible way it controls deep end returns plus shallow returns, it can only be an on/off valve. Even if it is has multiple positions on the dial. So when you say that when you turn that valve it turns deep end jets on or off independently of shallow end jets that is an impossibility, so something is missing here.

He also mentioned that the valve that is connected to the lines may have another pump connected to it which means I may be using well water. There is an additional pump there.
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Not quite what I was trying to communicate. I think that valve may have another pipe to it that I can not see and you did not see. Separate from that we need to know what that pump is for. It may be for a pressure side cleaner, but the ones I have seen usually have 1.5" diameter. In picture it looks like 3/4" pipe coming to and exiting which would be very common for water, so if it is connected to well water and that pool has been previously filled with well water it will be info Swampwoman needs to know. But the big thing is there are still many questions about your system which could be causing this prolonged SLAM. BUT it could (and most of the time is) organics that need to be killed.

Again I think the most important thing you can do is understand exactly all your plumbing, and I would definitely at this point have someone come in and explain your plumbing and system from a mechanical standpoint in detail. If it were me, I would ask them to draw a rough schematic, so you can refer to it later. Find out all the details of the heater, not only how to turn heater on and off to heat pool but if there is a way to isolate it out of the circulation loop. Find out what the other pump is for. If he starts to give advice about what to add to pool be sure to ignore that politely or write it all down but definitely do not add anything unless directed by Swampwoman.
 

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So I should do another chlorine test after I add chlorine? about 1 hour later? I see how adding 5 gallons of 12.5% chlorine would raise my FC to about 38 for the night. So I should not add any until sometime during the next day?
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I would test again after after adding chlorine, 30 min probably good in a pool that has good circulation, but until you are sure you really have good circulation, the hour probably better. The reason to test afterward is to see you got the expected increase in FC. You are adding based on an estimated volume of your pool. But if you underestimated your pool volume, FC will be higher than expected and if you overestimated pool volume, FC will be lower than expected. In this way you refine the volume of the pool and always hit your targets. Once you always hit your targets you do not need to test after additions. Ideally during Slam you should test and add the proper amount of chlorine every few hours. Unfortunately, that is not possible for most of us so we do the best we can, but that sometimes extends the process and why you are targeting 20 on your additions but not exceeding 20, it allows a loss of 4 without going below 16 which is your real target. If this does not make sense let us know, maybe another way it can be explained.
 
Good morning. Only have a sec but if your TA was 70 ppm then ignore my suggestion. Pink should be fine.

Regarding dosing...the approach you were following is not the TFP SLAM Process method insofar as we advocate more frequent checks and replenishments at a more precise and less risky concentration to protect liner and equipment.

So at this point, let your FC come down to below 20, then add back TO 20.

Regarding spider gasket..,what presenting problem was that a response to? If you've had no problems backwashing and moving it back into position and if your filter is running I'm not sure its germane.

Can you confirm that your filter is running correctly and/or describe what its doing?
 
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A couple of problems I encountered with the system today.
When turning the pump back on, water was not filling into the basket. After I turned valve to 6: position, (skimmers and drain on) the water filled and pump was working. The PSI reading was at 20. When I turned the valve to skimmers on and drain almost off, the PSI reading is 15-16 but the pump and filtter are working.
With the pump off, I noticed bubbles in the basket. There is an O-ring in the housung but it may need changing. I thought I needed an O-ring in the cover itself but it seems like that's wrong.

I can see a bit in the deep end now and I can't see any debris. I scheduled an appointment with the pool company to vacuum the pool on Saturday. They use a vacuum pump. I have not vacuumed at all as to not interrupt the gradual clearing.
Should I keep the appointment? Is a vacuum pump a good idea, maybe faster cleanup?
Though it is clearing it's still green.
 
Just to fill in anyone following this thread, George and I spoke by phone last night and this afternoon. He had found another problem. He though the O ring was missing from the pump basket strainer cover (technically called strainer cover gasket). He also had a problem that frequently the pump would start to make noise, he would see bubbles in the pump strainer basket, then pump pressure drop to almost zero and most of water would empty out of pump then gradually refill. Last night I thought it was air getting into pump because Gasket/o-ring was missing. Today upon close inspection gasket was there, he put a little pool lube (silicon grease) on the gasket and tried again but same phenomenon occurred. Then he turned valve that controls the input of water from the main drain or skimmers (although this is technically a form of a multiport valve, I will call it a diverter valve so we do not get it confused with the multiport valve on the filter) from where it was (set so skimmers are full on but slightly turned a little more so it also draws a little from the main drain) to where the main drain is full on and skimmers full on and when he turned pump on pressure went to 20 PSI and no longer did he experience the air coming in or pressure drops. We then went back to original setting and pressure was 15-16. but no air leaks or pressure drops. I wanted use a shop vac to blow back through the lines to verify flow at different valve positions and see it we had significant block, but he did not have access to shop vac. Since it was running again we decided to go with the setting and do nothing further, so he could continue on with the slam as outlined by Swampwoman and after that address this issue so that if circulation system had to be down a day or 2 he would not digress again into a swamp. Possible some debris had caught in valve but with turning the valve to a different position, it partially cleared and may clear more in the future.

Also we had a discussion about testing and adding chlorine, and he was under the impression that chlorine had to be added in the evening and not during the day therefore only allowing 1 addition a day, and he was trying to keep the FC above 16. I told him it was fine to add frequently throughout the day but using pool math to determine amount and the target is 20. I see from post above it appears we are on the same page, nice job George. Keep posting time and results of test along with how much you add.

Hope this catches everyone up with what is happening if you are following the thread.
 
Good evening, gentlemen. Thanks for the update and sorry my long hours make me unavailable to otherwise keep up ;) Glad system is behaving!

George, re:
Should I keep the appointment? Is a vacuum pump a good idea, maybe faster cleanup
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I think this is an awesome plan for 3 reasons.

1. The vac pump will work just like the trash pump idea, but they're doing the work.
2. They're also onsite so you could ask any outstanding questions about these valves and their behavior (with which I'm not familiar) and anything else mystifying about the equipment.
3. It will expedite your slam without question so you can aim to have it clear for your daughters birthday. After a solid month, while you've had a lot of road blocks, you've ALSO learned a lot and will be well positioned to together with some water repacement, do a shorter slam.

If you decide for sure they're coming with the external vac, this might be a golden opportunity to attempt to use some Alum floc Friday, circulate for two hours, turn off pump til they come. This will hopefully force cloudiness to drop. Leslies sells it. You might call the pool tech to confirm such a plan works for them. If it works right, ths nails the entire sand problem for you.

Then you can pick right back up on the Slam immediately with lots of checking/dosing on Sunday

So, you know my vote ;)

Your process on the slam/dose steps sounded effect so keep up the good work.
 
Here are the results of the chlorine test at 6PM, using 10ml .
FC-19
CC-.5.
I added another gallon of 10% liquid chlorine right after the test result. My wife added another gallon of 10% liquid chlorine at 9:30PM. I will test the water again around 6AM.

Ok, I will definitely pick up some alum floc tomorrow. Is this aluminum sulfate? I did some research briefly and the recommended PH is 7.0 before the alum floc is added and that is exactly where mine was last week. Should I test it again tomorrow? I read one article where 8.0 was recommended. Should I add the floc in the afternoon?
http://www.lesliespool.com/Leslies-Alum-Enhancer-Flocculant-Additive/Alum-Enhancer.htm?suggest=alum floc
Instructions are to add 4-12 lbs per 10,000 gallons. The container is 8 lbs. That means I should buy 3 or 4?

I will talk to the pool tech tomorrow and reconfirm with the company that they are coming on Saturday for sure. I like to be prepared so in the unlikely event that they cancel, I will rent a vacuum pump from Home Depot or Lowe's. Can you recommend any good ones?
Just to confirm, when you say to circulate for 2 hours...you mean stay in the Filter setting, not recirculate?

I read some comments where people had trouble clearing their pool and later found algae to be hiding behind some steps or light fixtures after they were removed. Would the alum help?

Throughout this process, I considered the fact that this pool may never clear up, using July 1st as a sort of deadline to pack it in but for the first time I think there is a good chance that it will. Thank you Pool Amateur and Swampwoman for your posts and great advice.
 
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Ashtonfitzgerald is correct about false reading above FC=10. I do not know what PH you are supposed to be at for floc and how important that is for product to work well. I know you were thinking about adding this afternoon, hopefully Swampwoman checks in.

Good call on not adding more chlorine since you are above 20.

I look forwad to seeing what happens with the external vacuum and floc.
 

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