Hello From Ontario, Canada.

[Dave C In Ontario]

Hello from Ontario!
I'm Dave, and I've tried to read many many posts here, and thought I better sign up as I still have lots of things to learn!
I grew up with a pool.. but being a crappy son, I didn't really help out much to maintain them, so not very knowledgeable.
I mean I vacuumed, helped open and close.. But I didn't do any of the chemistry..

I do know the Cost to build a pool is CRAZY compared to when I was younger. ( okay - I'm almost 50, so maybe comparing a price from 35 years ago isn't fair ! )
Anyway..
I contracted a pool builder ( They're all so busy, it was a real challenge ) and the job was officially started November.
This pool will be a custom 32 X 14 vinyl lined, salt water. If I calculated it correctly it's about 12,100 gallons.
The layout is a 7'L x 10'W, 1'D tanning/baja ledge that drops off to 5'D "deep end" Deep end is 18'L X 14'W and it leads to the "shallow end" which is 7'L x 13'W and is 3'D.
The shallow end will have vinyl over steel corner steps.
Beside the tanning ledge will be a portable Hot tub ( marked with an X )
Something like this...


pb equipment:
Pentair SuperFlo.. that I upgraded to be a IntelliFlo ( because I wanted an IntelliCenter )
AquaRite/Low Salt - Salt Water Chlorination( T-15 Cell )
Raypak - RP2100 Heater

Current situation..
The pool shell is complete ( gunite / concrete bottom and steel walls) and backfilled..
Coping is in and Forms are in ready in most of the yard.. retaining wall is done in sitting area.
They built a 2' High table in the deep end put straw all over inside the pool.. then they double tarped.
All plumbing and bonding wire and 2 conduit for 2 gloBrite pool lights are all pulled back to the equipment pad.
2 Natural gas lines were put in for a fire table in the sitting area and a fire pot that will be on 8'L , 4 sheer feature wall.
Project is now waiting for spring thaw to continue.

Problems....
I told them I would hire someone to do all electrical ..as they wanted to change almost 7,000 for electrical work..
That was just a subpanel...no automation and all equipment wired to it.
The Pool company is INSANELY expensive on certain things.... so where I can I am doing it myself ( or at least organizing it )

All prices in Canadian Dollars..
For instance.. My Heater they quoted $7850 tax incl for a Raypak - RP2100 dig./elect. 266k BTU
Break down was:
450 Electrical hookup.
3,050 Natural Gas Line and Connection.
4,350 for the heater.

So I went shopping.. and bought the same heater for 2,800 ( yes even with Covid19, I scored one of the very few available), & I contracted a gas company for the Natural gas run $1600.

I really feel I am being fleeced on their "hook up" charges...
I asked them about automation and they said another 5000 - 6000 ..on top of the original electrical quote and it would be an easy touch..

I went shopping...
I have an IntelliCenter I5P-C SINGLE BODY CONTROL W/ SCG on order ( 2800 Tax incl ) .. a friend's brother is a dealer
I "think I want" IntelliValve(s) for my Feature wall.

Things I don't know..
I don't have a spa.. but in the future I do plan to buy a portable Hot tub that I am hoping I can just use the breaker space in the IntelliCenter ( 220v 50 amp requirement ).

AquaRite .. The PB says me this is just a plug in and kind of forget once it's running ..so no worries if not compatible to IC.
The amount I have read.. suggests this is not true.. but I have also read it is compatible to the IC..
They're billing me 2600 for this installed.. ( not incl. electrical of course )
I kind of Feel the IC40 is similar and maybe I should see if that is an option.. should it cost about the same?? Or may be it really doesn't matter??

I think the IntelliPH looks interesting... can I run that if I don't have a IntelliChlor?

Okay .. so that's about all ... As you can see .. I like shopping for a deal.. and I am really really open to suggestions!!

Thanks.
Dave!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dave,

It does not make sense to me to have a bunch of mixed brands of equipment when it comes to certain items.. In my mind the Automation, the Pump and the SWCG should all be the same brand.. I really don't fully understand your statements about the AquaRite.. If you are buying the "IntelliCenter I5P-C SINGLE BODY CONTROL W/ SCG" it should come with a salt cell.. We just need the P/N to make sure.

You can use the IntelliCenter as a holder for your standalone Spa breaker, but I would not.. Not sure about the spa you are buying but mine has two 240 volt GFCi breaker and my EasyTouch is already full of breakers. There is not as much room in there as you might think..

As you already know the only pump that Pentair automation can control is the IntelliFlo style pumps.

I never suggest the Intelliph as in most cases you just don't need it.. If you do, it is pretty easy to add later.

Oh... can you come down to Texas and take your air back...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

Dave,

It does not make sense to me to have a bunch of mixed brands of equipment when it comes to certain items.. In my mind the Automation, the Pump and the SWCG should all be the same brand.. I really don't fully understand your statements about the AquaRite.. If you are buying the "IntelliCenter I5P-C SINGLE BODY CONTROL W/ SCG" it should come with a salt cell.. We just need the P/N to make sure.

You can use the IntelliCenter as a holder for your standalone Spa breaker, but I would not.. Not sure about the spa you are buying but mine has two 240 volt GFCi breaker and my EasyTouch is already full of breakers. There is not as much room in there as you might think..

As you already know the only pump that Pentair automation can control is the IntelliFlo style pumps.

I never suggest the Intelliph as in most cases you just don't need it.. If you do, it is pretty easy to add later.

Oh... can you come down to Texas and take your air back...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for replying Jim!

I really would like to have the SWG to be Pentair.. The problem is.. I signed the contract, and it was AquaRite..
Of course, I signed WAY before I knew about tfp.. So, I need to see if I can get that changed, or dropped (preferred as the price is 2600) and until then, I'm stuck.

The IntelliCenter Sku # 523125 : Canadian SKU IntelliCenter System Load Center 5P-C/ same as 521905 w/o IntelliChlor Cell/ with SCG XFMR
So it has everything except the IntelliChlor Cell .. so I think I would just need IC40 sku #520912 and I would be good?

I also didn't know I was going automation when I signed the contract ..( originally is was going to be just a plain subpanel ).
I know I will eventually get a HotTub ( Arctic Spa Cub is currently what we are looking at ) that requires a 240 Volt / 50 Amp service. So that would take up 2 spots..
I was going to run 100amp service(50ft) to the Intellicenter and then run both the pool equipment and the future hot tub.
This saves me running 2 separate feeds from my main panel and I just thought it would be way more convenient.
I was under the impression the IntelliCenter has 10 breaker spots and I would just need 2 for the hot tub.
I won't have a second pump, or have a need for a convenience plug at the panel since I am installing right beside a shed that is already powered by it's own circuit.
I would like to run 2 gloBrites(separately only if room), some landscape lighting, pump, SWG and the (NG) heater as well as 2 pentair intelliValves.
( I think 2 valves.. as I think there are 2 lines going to the water feature, but there might only be 1..I have to ask still )
I REALLY don't understand the power setup in the IntelliCenter ( Yes, I will use an electrician ).. So I don't know what needs it's own breaker or how power is supplied to the different components.
Could you kind of break down each breaker use for what I listed..? I mean if the future 50amp gfci hot tub breaker fits, and I can use it, I think that would save me money in the end and satisfy the electrical requirements.. I hope I am not missing something??
Lastly.. any idea if Tandem breakers can to be used in the IntelliCenter.. that might solve a space issue?

Again thanks so much for your responses!
Dave

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dave,

I looked up your spa manual and it appears that they use one 240 volt 50 amp GFCI..

You will need a 240 volt 20 amp GFCI for the pump.. This can also be used to power the SWCG through the Pump/Filter relay.

I assume a 240 volt 20 amp for the heater.. Wired direct to heater no need for a relay.

A 120 volt GFCI for your landscape lighting. Will need an Aux relay I would also use this to power a light over your equipment pad using another Aux relay.

A 120 volt breaker for your system transformer.. wired direct, no relay.

A 120 volt breaker for your pool lights. This would power both lights. (See below)**

The above would take up 9 of your 10 slots.


** If you want to control the lights individually, you will need to use 2 of your 4 Aux relays and have 2 transformers.. If you want both lights on at the same time and to always be the same color, then you only need one relay and one transformer.. I am assuming that you will be going with low voltage lights and not 120 volt lights..)

Valve movements are internally done so no breaker or relays are needed...

I "assume" tandem breakers would work, just have not seen it done on pool automation.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

I assume a 240 volt 20 amp for the heater.. Wired direct to heater no need for a relay.

Yah ..not sure. it's the A266 (digital) model and in the manual I read:

The heater is supplied with a dual-voltage transformer for 120 VAC or 240 VAC input power hookup. When operating on 120 VAC power, units draw 4 amps. When operating on 240 VAC power, units draw 2 amps.

So I guess I can run it as 240 and it runs more efficiently.. until I really need a breaker slot.. and I rewire as 120V lol..

I luckily already have a wired light on the back of the shed that is really bright and it will be within 2-3 feet of the equipment pad. Though I like the idea of the relay to power something else.. like my sitting area lights (led).
or string lights along the fencing.

This is great.. thus far it looks like I am still okay with my original thoughts on setup (spa breaker in the panel ), thank you.

Now to chat with the pb about this aquarite...

I hope your deep freeze is short lived.. It is -20 up here today. BRRR

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

Hey Jim I have one more question...

A 120 volt GFCI for your landscape lighting. Will need an Aux relay I would also use this to power a light over your equipment pad using another Aux relay.

I think it is a 300w transformer I get with the Globrite Color LED kit ( 2 lights ) ..
That leaves me with about 250w left on that transformer to add more lighting .. lets say I need more..
Would I be able to power a second transformer using the second Aux relay as you describe above.. or does that second transformer need it's own 120v 15a breaker and I would have to group the two relays?
( edit for clarity : I don't want to control them separately .. though I probably have to disconnect my pool lights in the winter)

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dave,

A single 15 amp breaker can power a whole bunch of low voltage lights.. If the Aux relay sends the 120 volts to a single transformer, then any lights connected to the transformer will all turn on and off at the same time.. If you wanted to power your landscape lights on/off by themselves, you could still use the same breaker, but would need a different Aux relay and transformer to power the landscape lights.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dave C In Ontario]

Dave,

A single 15 amp breaker can power a whole bunch of low voltage lights.. If the Aux relay sends the 120 volts to a single transformer, then any lights connected to the transformer will all turn on and off at the same time.. If you wanted to power your landscape lights on/off by themselves, you could still use the same breaker, but would need a different Aux relay and transformer to power the landscape lights.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you, that makes sense to me.