Hello from an excited Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma!!

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kimkats said:
Nini, With the small company make sure to check some of their past pools to see how the people felt about how it was done in terms to time and subs and money.....

Some small companies take the money paid by pool A to pay for stuff for pool B. This is NOT a good way to do it and it might not even be legal.

Kim
Click to expand...

That would stink to be pool A and no other pool comes along for awhile and they've already spent your $$ on pool B!
Thanks for the heads up, Kim! I'm going to be really relying on you and everyone here to help me make sure my build goes well!
 
Would love to hear feedback about the equipment in my siggy. I have already figured out that I need to get a variable speed pump or a 2 speed pump, but what's the difference between the two?

Is the filter select a good one, large enough or should I be looking at something else? I had a friend who has an IG pool with a cartridge filter not to get one of those, but to get sand instead. She said replacing the cartridges is expensive.

I have more questions but I won't post the others just yet.

Thanks!

Denise
 
You can read the article on filters in Pool School. Each type filter has its advantages and disadvantages. In terms of how fine each type filters it's DE first, cartridge, then sand. In terms of ease of maintaining it's sand, cartridge and DE. Other considerations might include amount of pool water used to backwash (sand requires the most, then DE, while cartridge needs none).
Pool School - Pool Filter Comparison

I have a DE, but then I'm a little OCD about water quality and I don't mind the extra effort it takes.

When it comes to pumps a VS will cost a bit more up front, but will pay for itself in energy savings in a short time. The added flexibility and programmability of the onboard controlleris worth the extra cost even without the savings.
 
Hi Denise,
Your equipment in your sig is OK except for the pump. I'll get more into that in a second .... but you definitely should get at least a 2 speed pump.

Regarding your 280 cleaner... its tried and true. The downside is that it requires an extra pump to run it, which can get expensive on electricity if you will need to run it a lot to keep the pool clean. Im sure you know the alternative is a robot, which are about the same price up front as the Polaris + booster, but much more energy efficient. Just food for thought.

As for your questoin about the difference between a VS and a 2 Speed Pump.

The 2 speed pump only has 2 speeds. 3450 RPM and 1750 RMP.
A Variable Speed pump has an RPM range of about 600 RPM up to 3750 RPM.
With a SWG, you will probably need to run the pump around 1200 RPM so you get enough water flow for the SWG to work.

Without doing a bunch of math, its safe to say, that unless your electricity is more than .20 cents KWH, then you may not ever recover the extra cost of the pump in energy savings when compared to a 2 speed. However in saying that, the VS pumps are very versatile with some of their programming features. They have built in timer, built in freeze protection and you can schedule them to come on at different RPMs and multiple times of day if you want to, and they are - Extremely - quiet. If there is any value to you in pump versatility, then its worth looking at.

The 2 speed pump will require an external timer with freeze protection, and its either on or off. To change from low to high speed, you'll have to flip a switch on it.

On a personal note. I have fairly cheap electric rate of .12 KWH, and I have a Variable Speed pump and I LOVE my pump.
I run my pump about 18 hours a day year round, and my electric consumption is just a little over 250 watts at 1200 RPM, which equates to about 19.00 month on my light bill.
If I had to replace my pump, I would buy another just like it.

hope this helps,
 
I had a cartridge filter with my last pool. I now have a sand filter and LOVE it!

cartridge=getting wet when cleaning it.
-time-more as you have to drain the filter, take the cartridge out, rinse it off GOOD (takes quite a bit of time) and put it all back together


BUT if you have a big enough one you should not have to do this often.

Sand=turn off pump, turn the the handle on the top to backwash, watch water until it flows clear, turn handle to rinse, let it rinse for a little bit, turn handle to filter and walk away!

BUT like said above a cartridge cleans the water better than a sand filter does BUT I do add DE to my sand to help polish the water.

It is up to you. The bigger the better!

I just wanted to give you some "real world" experience.

Kim
 
In all cases you want a large filter. As with your SWG, you want a filter that is rated for a much larger pool than yours. That way they will filter better and need service less often, with a cartridge filter that can mean you only have to clean it once a year, and the cartridges can last for years before they need to be replaced.

Most pool builders work with one brand for equipment. Usually it's either all Hayward or all Pentair. Which means you can usually pick type and size of filters, pumps and SWG, but not brands.
 
Thank you Chief, Dave and Kim!

I had read the the article on filters. It's great info! I also wanted to hear personal experience on the different types since I have no experience with any of them. I will most likely be doing the majority of the pool upkeep and maintenance, so I want things that are user friendly, and I'm real big on paying a little more for quality if it means it's going to save me down the road by lasting longer and it does a better job.
I think I'm leaning toward DE. I get grossed out easy by yucky water (or perceived yucky ;) ) and the article mentioned it filters the best, although the sand filter sounds super easy. Don't know how I feel about getting wet when I clean the cartridge, I guess you just prepare for that by being in your suit.

One of my concerns (a big one) is that I work 3 days/wk but these are long days. I'm up at 4:45 and out of the house by 6:15.. Most days I don't walk in the door until 8-9pm. That gives me just enough time to eat and get to bed to get up for my next shift. It leaves zero time for pool maintenance. My husband works the same days I do, except he works nights but basically the same amount of hours. Do you have suggestions/pointers/instructions on how to keep the pool from getting out of whack during that time so that I'm not spending a lot of time in my first day off correcting problems? I could probably squeeze out 15-30minutes on my work days but not until after work.

BTW- my builder uses Hayward... I hope that's a good brand...

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Divin Dave said:
Hi Denise,
Your equipment in your sig is OK except for the pump. I'll get more into that in a second .... but you definitely should get at least a 2 speed pump.

Regarding your 280 cleaner... its tried and true. The downside is that it requires an extra pump to run it, which can get expensive on electricity if you will need to run it a lot to keep the pool clean. Im sure you know the alternative is a robot, which are about the same price up front as the Polaris + booster, but much more energy efficient. Just food for thought.

As for your questoin about the difference between a VS and a 2 Speed Pump.

The 2 speed pump only has 2 speeds. 3450 RPM and 1750 RMP.
A Variable Speed pump has an RPM range of about 600 RPM up to 3750 RPM.
With a SWG, you will probably need to run the pump around 1200 RPM so you get enough water flow for the SWG to work.

Without doing a bunch of math, its safe to say, that unless your electricity is more than .20 cents KWH, then you may not ever recover the extra cost of the pump in energy savings when compared to a 2 speed. However in saying that, the VS pumps are very versatile with some of their programming features. They have built in timer, built in freeze protection and you can schedule them to come on at different RPMs and multiple times of day if you want to, and they are - Extremely - quiet. If there is any value to you in pump versatility, then its worth looking at.

The 2 speed pump will require an external timer with freeze protection, and its either on or off. To change from low to high speed, you'll have to flip a switch on it.

On a personal note. I have fairly cheap electric rate of .12 KWH, and I have a Variable Speed pump and I LOVE my pump.
I run my pump about 18 hours a day year round, and my electric consumption is just a little over 250 watts at 1200 RPM, which equates to about 19.00 month on my light bill.
If I had to replace my pump, I would buy another just like it.

hope this helps,
Click to expand...

so what's better? 2 speed or variable? Do pumps last a pretty long time?

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kimkats said:
I had a cartridge filter with my last pool. I now have a sand filter and LOVE it!

cartridge=getting wet when cleaning it.
-time-more as you have to drain the filter, take the cartridge out, rinse it off GOOD (takes quite a bit of time) and put it all back together


BUT if you have a big enough one you should not have to do this often.

Sand=turn off pump, turn the the handle on the top to backwash, watch water until it flows clear, turn handle to rinse, let it rinse for a little bit, turn handle to filter and walk away!

BUT like said above a cartridge cleans the water better than a sand filter does BUT I do add DE to my sand to help polish the water.

It is up to you. The bigger the better!

I just wanted to give you some "real world" experience.

Kim
Click to expand...

thanks Kim! Maybe my friend doesn't have a large enough filter. She just hates hers and is planning to replace it with sand.

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chiefwej said:
You can read the article on filters in Pool School. Each type filter has its advantages and disadvantages. In terms of how fine each type filters it's DE first, cartridge, then sand. In terms of ease of maintaining it's sand, cartridge and DE. Other considerations might include amount of pool water used to backwash (sand requires the most, then DE, while cartridge needs none).
Pool School - Pool Filter Comparison

I have a DE, but then I'm a little OCD about water quality and I don't mind the extra effort it takes.

When it comes to pumps a VS will cost a bit more up front, but will pay for itself in energy savings in a short time. The added flexibility and programmability of the onboard controlleris worth the extra cost even without the savings.
Click to expand...

chiefwej said:
In all cases you want a large filter. As with your SWG, you want a filter that is rated for a much larger pool than yours. That way they will filter better and need service less often, with a cartridge filter that can mean you only have to clean it once a year, and the cartridges can last for years before they need to be replaced.

Most pool builders work with one brand for equipment. Usually it's either all Hayward or all Pentair. Which means you can usually pick type and size of filters, pumps and SWG, but not brands.
Click to expand...

what's the cleaning process with DE? How big would I want to get? I have no clue...
 
Hayward is a good brand, no worries about that.

Cleaning filters isnt something you have to do all the time. The bigger the filter, the less you have to clean or backwash it. Normally only 2 or 3 times a year is required unless its extremely small. A 30 inch sand filter is a big one. A cartridge filter over 400 ft is a big one. A DE filter over 60 ft is a big one.

As for what filters best? I will be honest. They all do a GREAT job. When it comes to water clarity, the biggest factor is keeping the water parameters balanced.
If you keep your chemicals in check, you will be hard pressed to tell the difference in water clarity between any type of the filters.

I have a cartridge filter and I like it. I pop the cartriges out out (there are 4 huge ones) and spray them off. I use my power washer with low pressure tip to spray them down. Im done in 30 minutes. Its a twice a year activity for me.

As for the pump, there is no "one is better than the other". Disregarding the elctircal usage, it really all comes down to a personal choice.

With a VS pump you can increase or decrease speeds and doing that will change the current you see in the water, which I think is pretty cool.

Pumps should last a long time, 5 or7 or more years. Depends on how long you run it every year.

I like the VS pumps, but thats just me. Finanically it makes no sense, but being able to program the pump is the next best thing to having an automation system on the pool and gives me flexibility to add water features or a solar system in the future.

If there is a downside to the VS pump, is that the controls on it are sensitive to voltage spikes, power surges and such things. I would recommend that if you get one, to have the PB install a surge protector on it to protect the electronics.

An Intermatic PS3000 is what you would want to have installed.
http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Pool%20and%20Spa/Surge/PS3000%20Sell%20Sheet.ashx
Cost less than 100$ online. Im sure PB would increase that if he installs it for you.
 

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Nini, I REALLY think you need SWG due to your work schedule. It also sounds like the vs pump will be the best for your set up due to your work schedule. It sounds like it can be set up to turn on and off at different speeds and time. The SWG works with the pump/timer so you should not have to do anything other than test when you can.

I will tell you that I do not test every day anymore. I KNOW what my pool will do on just about any given day-cloudy, sunny, hot ,cool, etc....I run a FULL test every weekend. I do FC and PH about 2 times a week.

I DO add chlorine every day! With a SWG you would not have to add chlorine as the SWG makes it for you!

Kim
 
When talking about what type filters best, excluding clearing a swamp, the only practical difference is how many floaties (and maybe their size tiny though they are) are visible right in front of the lights at night. During the day the water will look crystal clear and identical from all three. The word yucky will never be a thought with any of them.

I have a cartridge and would get another. No need for me to experiment next time when this one works great. Though all of them would in reality.
 
Using Hayward equipment I would go for a VS pump, AquaRite T-15 SWG. But if going with a SWG, I would avoid using any stone anywhere that it could be exposed to pool water. In my pool we used a concrete deck with a textured acrylic finish that has no coping just a cantilevered edge.

Sand filter is the easiest to maintain, but with backwashing you lose salt and have to replace it. Although both sand and DE can be backwashed for cleaning, sand usually wastes a lot more pool water, and with DE you could just choose to do a break-down cleaning and avoid using any backwash water. If you use a very large (over 60 sq ft) DE filter you could do a backwash and recharge with 80% of the full charge of DE every couple months, takes about 20 min. A full break-down clean will take an hour or more and would be needed only about once a year. If you go with a cartridge every cleaning is a breakdown cleaning. No loss of pool water, so no salt to be replaced. However, if you are ever fighting an algae battle you will wish you could backwash, rather than having to take the filter apart every time the pressure rises. Whichever you choose, make it oversized.
 
You all a such a fount of information! I so appreciate being able to pick your brains!

We are definitely doing SWG and I'm currently reading up on DE filters (read the sticky about the breakdown cleaning, etc). I'm glad to hear Hayward are good products! And I believe we will ditch the Polaris and do the robot. Now to decide which one...I don't want to have to buy a new one in just a couple years.

Anyone know now about the PL-4 automation?

Looks like we are finally going to close on the refi this week although the lein issue is still an issue on paper. In reality, all parties know and agree that there is no lein.
Next step is the vehicle. Went to a couple dealerships this evening. If all goes well, I'll be driving a new 2015 CRV by Friday.
Moved the PB who was supposed to come this AM to tomorrow afternoon. Gonna see what he has to say....



Maybe we can get a pool contract in time for my 50th birthday on the 28th ��
 
I can't help with automation. I made it a point to keep it simple and avoid any automation. We just have a timer controlling the SWG, the VS pump has its own onboard timer/controller. Since our spa uses a separate pump and the heater is on the spa loop a simple one channel remote will turn it on and off. If I do want to direct the heater to the pool, there are manual valves for that. We later added solar heating and have a solar controller that automatically operates the solar valve and ramps up the pump speed when heat is called for and is available.
 
chiefwej said:
I can't help with automation. I made it a point to keep it simple and avoid any automation. We just have a timer controlling the SWG, the VS pump has its own onboard timer/controller. Since our spa uses a separate pump and the heater is on the spa loop a simple one channel remote will turn it on and off. If I do want to direct the heater to the pool, there are manual valves for that. We later added solar heating and have a solar controller that automatically operates the solar valve and ramps up the pump speed when heat is called for and is available.
Click to expand...


Well, I guess my next research will be automation vs simple... Thanks for weighing in Chief! I really appreciate your helpful responses!

Got a call from the bank and we are a definite GO for closing tomorrow and the lein release has been filed. Praise God!
 
2nd PB came out today. Thanks to a list of questions I found in another thread, I happily grilled him for 1 1/2 hrs. I liked him. I didn't like a couple of his answers but overall, he's in the running. He was the owner and seems to be personally involved with the builds. It's a family owned company, he and his wife along with their son who is the construction mgr. he said they are having a very busy fall and it will be the end of next week before we get the bid and pictures. It's gonna be hard to wait :/
 

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