Hard pipe vs flex?

[oh-DIY-io]

Hey all!

So I started my build almost 3 years ago... Excavator issues, electrician issues and permit issues ended the first summer. Bought and renovated a coffee shop the next summer. Bought and renovated a tanning salon this past one.

I decided to hire out the 2nd half of the build. The first guy I hired was a train wreck and quickly got fired. I've had 2 more estimates since. I'm hearing VERY different advice from "the experts" on plumbing. Wondering what input you all might have.

• The guy I hired installed schedule 40 hard pipe.
• The only issue the next guy mentioned was about soil that had washed into my over-dig. He didn't like that the plumbing wasn't resting directly on the collar. (There's maybe a 15' section with 5-7" of soil between the pipe and collar. The majority of it has <2" or no soil in between.) He said it was for sure that it would eventually compact and I'd have busted pipes.
• The most recent guy didn't care about the soil, but was adamant that Sch 40 was a no-no. Said I needed to rip it all out and use flex pipe.
• Pool Warehouse says sch 40 hard pipe is what they recommend. (although they use flex in their installation video)

Trying to decide if I need to

1. backfill and move on
2. rip out the hard pipe and replace with flex
3. leave the sch 40 harp pipe but dig out the soil so the pipe rests on the collar
4. I also noticed that there's a lot of hard 90 degree angles. Wondering if I should replace with double 45's and/or long sweep 90's

Very interested in your thoughts.

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Schedule 40 hard pipe is preferred plumbing except in special cases. We see many instances of leaks underground in flex pipe. Rigid schedule 40 is more resistant to punctures and the movement of soil around it.

Flex PVC hose makes life easier for plumbers. The lazy ones like it. It is a lot less work then cutting and gluing rigid pipe.

I would not use a guy who says to rip out Schedule 40 and replace it with flex PVC. Now an issue that he may not be telling you is he does not want to deal with if all the connections the first guy put in are properly glued with no leaks. He would rather just start over.

Let's see if @jimmythegreek will comment about how your pipe lays.

Show us some pics of your current situation.

 

[oh-DIY-io]

Schedule 40 hard pipe is preferred plumbing except in special cases. We see many instances of leaks underground in flex pipe. Rigid schedule 40 is more resistant to punctures and the movement of soil around it.

Flex PVC hose makes life easier for plumbers. The lazy ones like it. It is a lot less work then cutting and gluing rigid pipe.

I would not use a guy who says to rip out Schedule 40 and replace it with flex PVC. Now an issue that he may not be telling you is he does not want to deal with if all the connections the first guy put in are properly glued with no leaks. He would rather just start over.

Let's see if @jimmythegreek will comment about how your pipe lays.

@ajw22

Thanks so much for the quick reply! "Lazy" is the same word the Pool Warehouse guys used to describe the installers that use flex!

Question on the "properly glued and no leaks" comment. The flex pipe guy said that "the purple on the pipes is what's used for low pressure indoor plumbing". He said that's how we know they weren't joined right and there will be leaks. (That made no sense to me because the purple would just be the primer.)

Based upon what you've heard, am I likely good to go if it stands up to a pressure test?

 

[ajw22]

Purple is the primer used. Primer also comes clear. But plumbers use purple primer so that inspectors can identify that joints have been properly glued with primer and glue. It also lets you eyeball if they missed gluing any joint and left it as a dry fit.

That guy is full of it. I would not use him.

If the plumbing passes the pressure test, which is mandatory, then it is fine.

PVC Repair - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Zmann]

Agreed on both accounts, no funny pipe just shc 40 and yes to primer vs one step

 

[4xWTub]

The flex pipe guy said that "the purple on the pipes is what's used for low pressure indoor plumbing".

I thought the issue of primer vs no primer on PVC pipe joints is an interesting one. I have always used primer first, and I have experienced a building inspector mentioning that he looks for the purple primer color around a PVC joint as mark of a proper joint.

Oatey, a large manufacturer of plastic pipe primers & solvent cements, appears to always require that a primer must be used with their various PVC cements. See the Oatey PDF attached.

However, a manufacturer of a competing PVC cement product called "Weld-On" offers instructions on using their product either with or without primer. See attached PDF.

So there is a reasonable basis for a knowledgeable plumbing professional to prefer 'no primer' PVC joints. Whether that preference justifies ripping out piping that was installed with 'primed' joints is something else entirely.

 

[Zmann]

Line # 6 page # 10 in the weld on PDF really sums up why primer is best in a dirty environment like a pool

6. With a clean-dry rag, remove any dirt, grease, shavings or moisture from the inside and outside the pipe and fitting. A thorough wipe is usually sufficient. (Moisture will retard cure and dirt, grease, or any foreign material can prevent proper fusion). 7. Check pipe and fittings for dry fit before cementing. For proper

 

[Bill1974]

One additional thing to double check is that sch 40 fitting were used and not DWV fitting. The depth of the socket is deeper on the sch 40 fitting and they are rated to hold pressure. DWV fitting have a shallower socket and are not rated for pressure.

I would probably get the piping finished then do a pressure test. Unless there is a good reason to pressure test before finishing the piping. If the soil is properly compacted and it's not an expansive soil there isn't much worry with pipe cracking. But it relies on the soil being properly compacted. Bedding the pipe in 1/2" or 3/4" crushed stone is ideal as it's easy to fully compact. I just re-piped my pool and used rigid PVC. All the flex pipe I pulled out was failing on the inside and much of it would crack or kink if bent. Also I don't think it was that old either, since I put in the 5th set of lines in some places and the pool is only from the 80's.