Guess what I found in the mail today!

setsailsoon

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Why are you using the Goldline for solar control?
Got the solar before I had automation and it came with the Goldline controller... when I installed the first automation (Jandy RS) I still only had a 2 speed pump so I left it that way. Now after my lightning strike I switched to Pentair Intellicenter... still had the old pump. Now with the VS I really should just hook it up right using the Intellicenter. I can experiment with the Pentair RS 485 connection to the V-Green instead of messing around with the digital inputs.

Chris
 

setsailsoon

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Or since you have 3 speed setting just set another one for high speed and wire the second transform to that.
Kato,

Yep, that's sort of what I was trying to do. But since it involves two different controllers (the Pentair, and the Goldline) I have to combine the common wire from two different controllers. If there's a difference in the internal resistance of the two different transformers seems like it could be problematic.

Chris
 

setsailsoon

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Connecting two transformers together in effect shorts the generating transformer against the idle transformers winding. I don't know what the resistance of the transformer is. At a minimum it will load down the 24V and deliver a lower voltage to the pump control. Or it may short the transformer and overheat it or blow a fuse, if there is a fuse on the low voltage side.

If you want to try it first I wouls connect the two transformers together and put a voltmeter on the connection and see what voltage you get. See if you blow a fuse or overheat the operative transformer. At worse you risk the cost of a transformer and not your new drive.
Allen,

Thanks much! Good idea. I'm not smart enough on electronics to express it the way you have. But it just didn't seem like a good idea just to spice the commons without thinking it through. I think I'll either do the transformer experiment of bite the bullet and get rid of the Goldline and hook it all up through the Intellicenter... now I get to try the RS 485 on the V-Green and see if Pentair commands work on it. The V-Green RS-485 protocol isn't very well documented. The manual just mentions that is can be used with major automation manufacturers.

Chris
 

ajw22

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Allen,

Thanks much! Good idea. I'm not smart enough on electronics to express it the way you have. But it just didn't seem like a good idea just to spice the commons without thinking it through. I think I'll either do the transformer experiment of bite the bullet and get rid of the Goldline and hook it all up through the Intellicenter... now I get to try the RS 485 on the V-Green and see if Pentair commands work on it. The V-Green RS-485 protocol isn't very well documented. The manual just mentions that is can be used with major automation manufacturers.

Chris
A diode allows current to flow only one way. What you need to do is put diodes in the lines. That will prevent back feeding of each transformer.
 

setsailsoon

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A diode allows current to flow only one way. What you need to do is put diodes in the lines. That will prevent back feeding of each transformer.
Allen,

Thanks, I have a few diodes that I used working on the gas heater previously to make a Flame rectification circuit simulator. But since it's ac wouldn't that still result in a DC signal passed through?

Chris
 

ajw22

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Allen,

Thanks, I have a few diodes that I used working on the gas heater previously to make a Flame rectification circuit simulator. But since it's ac wouldn't that still result in a DC signal passed through?

Chris

Yeah, I didn't realize that was 24V AC. A diode will clip the AC and change it to DC. Never mind with that idea.
 

bdavis466

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Aug 4, 2014
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Allen,

Thanks much! Good idea. I'm not smart enough on electronics to express it the way you have. But it just didn't seem like a good idea just to spice the commons without thinking it through. I think I'll either do the transformer experiment of bite the bullet and get rid of the Goldline and hook it all up through the Intellicenter... now I get to try the RS 485 on the V-Green and see if Pentair commands work on it. The V-Green RS-485 protocol isn't very well documented. The manual just mentions that is can be used with major automation manufacturers.

Chris
I don't believe Pentair's RS-485 will communicate with the Pump. Their language is proprietary and they won't share it with other manufacturers.
 

setsailsoon

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I don't believe Pentair's RS-485 will communicate with the Pump. Their language is proprietary and they won't share it with other manufacturers.
Yep, I'm pretty sure you're right. After some searching on their site I found they sell an interface board to the major brand automation systems... $200. I think I'll just use the digital inputs I can pick up from the Intellicenter. The heater signal for the gas heat pump speed and the solar booster pump output Jim R suggested a while back. I'm thinking:
  • Step 3 1850 rpm 24 hrs duration
  • Step 2 Solar heater 3200 rpm 0 hrs duration and using the booster pump signal for the digital input
  • Step 1 Gas heater 3200 rpm 0 hrs duration and using the same heater signal that sends remote "call for heat" to the heater controller board.
Make sense?

Chris
 

setsailsoon

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After thinking through the helpful input from y'all I believe the following is the safest way to set up my V-Green pump is to get rid of the old Goldline controller and fully implement solar heat with the new Intellicenter system. The V-Green pump allows 3 distinct speeds to be set plus another that it designates as an "override" speed. "Override" speed is almost the same as the "Step" speeds and can be used as one in most cases. The pumps internal timer setting works by setting a duration for each of the 3 "steps" after it starts. If a digital input is activated it runs that speed until the digital input signal stops then reverts to the internal timer setting. Given the concern about connecting more than 1 input to each speed pin and the fact the connector is clearly only designed to get one signal for each speed setting I'll try to set it up so I only uses one input per "step". The connector is the spring contact kind that you press the button and the contact moves up so you can insert a wire (see the connector below):

1578574165157.png

I really only need 2 speeds one relatively high speed for gas heat, solar heat, spa mode, suction cleaner plus one much lower speed for circulation and running the chlorinator. I can get a digital input from the Intellicenter for each of these conditions but it adds up to 5 conditions. But if I say the suction cleaner will get enough run time to do its thing when the solar heat is invoked then I should be good with 4 pins. So I'm thinking I set the timer to run as follows:
  • The base speed "Step 1" is 1850 rpm. The way the pump control works is the timer settings are invoked if there is no digital input so I'll set it for a duration of 24 hrs as step. This way if no other digital input is invoked the pump will run at 1850 rpm.
  • For solar heat I'll use "Step 2" set at a duration of 0 hrs normally and set at high speed (3200)
  • Spa mode will use "Step 3" also set at duration of 0 hrs and high speed (3200)
  • Gas heat will use the "override" speed also set at duration of 0 hrs and high speed (3200)
I'm lucky I have the 4 separate speed settings. This would be a lot simpler if I could confirm that I can use multiple 24 vac signal sources for each speed. But tech support at V-Green has been worthless to me. They just have an operator that tells you to call your distributor. I'm trying that route now. But it's email only from my supplier and I'm not real hopeful. If you haven't bought your V-Green yet you may want to be sure your supplier can provide tech support if you are doing an installation that is not covered explicitly in the installation manual.

I hope this helps.

Chris
 

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RMcGirr83

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Pretty sure override runs for two hours before returning back to whichever step. I got nothing on your intellicenter though so haven't a clue on that.
 

setsailsoon

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Pretty sure override runs for two hours before returning back to whichever step. I got nothing on your intellicenter though so haven't a clue on that.
Rich,

Thanks for the reply. Override default is 2 hrs but it can be changed just like the Steps. The difference is only in how it works with the internal timer. Step 1,2,and 3 have to total 24 hrs. The override is independent of this requirement but is just another speed in every other way as far as I can tell.

Chris
 

setsailsoon

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Can you not just run the pump off the filter pump relay for low speed filtration/ circulation and then use the inputs for other speed control?
Not sure but it looks like the default speed has to be one of the 3 Step speeds. I'm sort of finagling a default by setting Step 1 to have a duration of 24 hours and the others plus the override to 0 duration. The manual says the duraations of Steps 1-3 must total 24.. But thanks for the idea, I'll look closer to see if it's possible.

Chris
 

ajw22

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Chris, thinking about your problem, you can have each 24V AC transformer close a relay that feeds power to trigger a speed input. That way the two transformers are isolated from each other. Using a double throw relay you can design it so that only one relay can be powered at a time.
 
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setsailsoon

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Chris, thinking about your problem, you can have each 24V AC transformer close a relay that feeds power to trigger a speed input. That way the two transformers are isolated from each other. Using a double throw relay you can design it so that only one relay can be powered at a time.
Allen,

Great idea. Yep, that would definitely do it. I had a little spare time so I went ahead and switched the solar control over to the Intellicenter. It was soooooo easy I couldn't believe it. I found coiled up wire on the valve actuator and solar temp input wire so the both made it to their new locations in the Pentair box. I also freed up a breaker that was used for the Hayward! I tested the booster pump connector and it works like a charm. It's 24V DC but doesn't matter. The V-Green digital inputs work on signals up to 30v AC or DC. Only problem is that I don't have a long wire with one of those little female 2-prong connectors that plug in to the aux connectors on the controller board. I'll have to look around. Anybody know a good source for these? In the meantime I'm just stepping up the speed with the actuator wire.

Next I'm on to the heater. Now that I have the gas heater and solar heater hooked up I need a signal to let the pump go to high speed so I get max flow through the gas heater for efficiency just like the solar. I thought I'd tap into the heater signal that goes to the control panel inside the heater. But there's no signal it just shorts when there's a call for heat. I may need to tap into a 24 vac signal from the heater board. Is there something inside the Pentair Intellicenter that has a 12 or 24 v DC or AC signal for this purpose?

Chris
 

setsailsoon

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Folks,

OK this installation is now complete. I set up the speeds as listed above in Post #70 above except I realized I didn't really need to change the speed for spa mode. I never run the spa without the heater running. Anytime I'm running the gas heater in spa or pool mode I go to max rpm. I thought long and hard about how to get a signal out of the heater. There were convenient easy spare spade connectors on the gas valve. I connected this 24 VAC signal to the Step 3 digital input. I was a little concerned about the ground issue previously discussed but confirmed the heater ground was connected to the ground in the Intellicenter sub panel.

So now that it's all running here's my thoughts on this drive:
Pluses
  • Price, by far the lowest cost way to get VS improvement and have multi-speed that can be used with most automation systems or stand-alone.
  • Control 4 speeds with digital inputs of 12-30 VDC or AC.
  • Since you are replacing the motor there are no plumbing changes.
  • Motor appears to be high quality, very little plastic content. Packaging is very solid.
  • Access to the shaft lock on rear without removing the cover. All you need is a 5/15" hex wrench
  • Like all VS pumps it's very quiet especially on low speed.
Minuses
  • Water intrusion record is poor which requires owner to "fix" the hold-down screw on the connections compartment. Not hard to do but they should fix this at the factory.
  • Tech support is non-existent by phone. I'm still waiting for an email response and will update if I get a response.

Net, net I'm still glad I did this. I will get about the same power savings as I would have from a pump costing $1000 more. Installation would have been much simpler and better us of automation may have enabled better power savings.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris
 

setsailsoon

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Rich,

Thanks for the photo, I looked and I have exactly the same thing. Looks like the one I have may be a Viton o-ring which are pretty tough but this one is so small that it can easily be cut so won't seal properly. Part of the problem is the way the housing is made with a "well" for the screw. Anytime it rains there's a "puddle" of water on the gasket. It should be raised not indented where the sealing surface is. It's definitely not made to be resealed very many times. I added silicone lube so it is sealed with less friction and have water proof tape over it as James suggested earlier. Fortunately I don't think this is that hard to fix. In the short term I'll replace the o-ring as you have. In the longer term, once I pretty up the wiring and do final assembly I'll put a blob of RTV over the screw. I'll have to cut it off each time I access in the future but that should be infrequent. Silicone RTV is very UV resistant so that should do the trick.

Thanks so much for the time you took to provide this information.

Chris
 
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