Gotta tell you about my first trip to the pool store...

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C

cpye2

0
Apr 5, 2018
19
Augusta, GA
Guys, I have owned my home with an in ground vinyl pool for about a year now. I use the BBB method, have a Taylor test kit, and a sand filter... I'll admit, it took a little reading and learning, but I can maintain crystal water thru out the 95+ degree summers here in south Georgia with relative ease using the BBB method and adjusting filter times thru the year. So here is what happened... water level started dropping during December, wasn't really able to gauge how fast because we had a really wet month + I did some traveling. Eventually water dropped below the skimmers so I stopped running the filter to see if maybe I had a cracked pipe. Eventually I cleaned up the levels and found a hole in the liner. I tried to jump on it and made some calls around to get some price estimates. Settled on a local store that had the price, warranty and package. 20 years experience. Went into the store and thats when they started questioning me about my water balance. I told them I have no problem maintaining the pool unless I leave for a week or so during the summer and don't cover the pool (chlorine burn off due to sun exposure). Thats when he tried to sell me on the Pristine Blue copper ion chemical. He told me everything you would want to hear. Easy, almost maintenance free, safer, cost less, he would test the water for free, yada yada yada... Sounded great so I came here to read up on the product. I'm going to make sure he doesn't balance my pool when he is done with the liner. There are 2 or 3 things I would like opinion on, and best practices with my new liner.

1) I read that water hardness is not so important with a vinyl pool. He said if I don't pay attention to the water hardness (what he referred to as calcium and alkalinity) then the liner will get brittle and crack. I keep my TA around 60-70, but never measured my hardness or calcium after filling the pool. Is there a number I should strive for on a vinyl pool?

2) I told them I use liquid chlorine and that my liner was faded most near the jet where I pour in the bleach. Should I continue to pour in near the jet when I get the new liner, or disperse around the edge slowly? Skip that and just go straight to the skimmer? They recommended diluting in a 5 gallon bucket before pouring but what your breath

3) This seemed absolutely ludicrous, but he said go around the top part of the liner above the water with armor all. This would prevent the upper part of the liner from fading.

He said if I do the armor all, keep the water balanced per his computers recommendations, and use pristine blue my liner will look like new in 20 year. Obviously I want the liner to last as long as possible. What do you guys think about my first trip to the pool store? :)
 
Armor-All Original is nothing more than mineral oil dispersed in water using some surfactants. It will not degrade the vinyl but it will get slowly dissolved away from water splashing on it. So you're basically introducing an small organic load to the water every time you use it, similar to someone who slathers themselves with tanning oil before jumping into your pool. You might notice a very thin oil slick on your pool surface if the water is calm.

I suppose it could work to keep the vinyl "like new" but at what cost? You've got to apply it and then the chlorine in the pool water will oxidize it. If you're ok with that and, more importantly, he writes it into his warranty that it is OK to do that!!, then I see no chemical issues.

The "CH is necessary for vinyl" topic is very controversial.....some claim there is evidence for it's necessity but no one has released any definitive info. Calcium carbonate is widely used in the vinyl manufacturing process as a mechanical additive as well as a colorant (it makes a good white background) but it's effects on pool water and, conversely, aggressive pool water's effects on it are not well established. CH is far more important for keeping the water from getting foamy and all you need for that is about 150ppm. If your environmental conditions are such that rain water dilutes a lot of your calcium away, then that's not so bad as it allows you to use calcium hypochlorite for chlorination instead of liquid chlorine. There's a lot stress on one's back when you can carry around 1-lb bags of cal-hypo as opposed to 8lbs jugs of liquid chlorine.....
 
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1) We had our liner for almost 10 years and have had zero CH the entire time and it's as supple as the day it was installed. I adjust the pH until it's stable (about 7.5) and let the TA sit where it likes (about 70). It wouldn't bother me if the TA was 50, as long as the pH was stable I'd leave it alone.

2) As long as you're pouring the bleach in when the pump is running and there's water exiting the return, the bleach has nothing to do with the liner fading.

3) See my first post. :) Never used anything on the exposed part of the liner. Not sure I want Armor All in my pool water. Even if it is mostly water and silicone.
 
LOL... what do I think?? I think he hopes you'll bite that hook with the pristine blue sales bait. Oy! What a mess and costly mistake that'd be!!

Pool liners are for the most part immune to hardness problems (assuming you don't have water like cement). What really causes problems with liners are pH problems. If your pH is too low your liner can become brittle. A supple liner resists cracks and tears better than a brittle one.

Liners are printed on their surface, not woven thru like fabric. So over time the sun's rays can take a toll eventually. Avoid letting any pool chemical sit on the surface. Brush and mix chemicals in the water well when adding. Keeping your chemistry in line helps you maintain your liner enormously.

Exactly how old *is* your current liner? Any dogs in the pool or events that may have caused significant punctures?

I'd stick to what you're doing... liquid chlorine/bleach or a SWG for the win all the way.

As to the guy suggesting Amour All above the water line, I'm not sure I've ever heard of it. I would research that idea a bit more. I've personally used a few things like spa cleaner or paste wax on my fiberglass pool under the coping just to avoid water spots but oh-so-carefully as to avoid contaminating the water itself.

Maddie :flower:
 
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Bama Rambler said:
1) We had our liner for almost 10 years and have had zero CH the entire time and it's as supple as the day it was installed. I adjust the pH until it's stable (about 7.5) and let the TA sit where it likes (about 70). It wouldn't bother me if the TA was 50, as long as the pH was stable I'd leave it alone.

2) As long as you're pouring the bleach in when the pump is running and there's water exiting the return, the bleach has nothing to do with the liner fading.

3) See my first post. :) Never used anything on the exposed part of the liner. Not sure I want Armor All in my pool water. Even if it is mostly water and silicone.
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Thanks for confirming what I was already thinking. My liner was already faded around the top when I bought the home and faded pretty good on the bottom. I wanted to make sure I wasn't aiding to premature liner failure and taking all steps necessary on the new liner. When I moved in the water was very out of balance. CYA well over 300-400 as far as I could tell with the kit. I had to pump out about 80% and refill to get right, so I can assume if they were maintaining sanitation the FC had to be ridiculously high. Also there were several bottles of store chem in the shed, along with bleach, borax and tablets.
 
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YippeeSkippy said:
LOL... what do I think?? I think he hopes you'll bite that hook with the pristine blue sales bait. Oy! What a mess and costly mistake that'd be!!

Pool liners are for the most part immune to hardness problems (assuming you don't have water like cement). What really causes problems with liners are pH problems. If your pH is too low your liner can become brittle. A supple liner resists cracks and tears better than a brittle one.

Liners are printed on their surface, not woven thru like fabric. So over time the sun's rays can take a toll eventually. Avoid letting any pool chemical sit on the surface. Brush and mix chemicals in the water well when adding. Keeping your chemistry in line helps you maintain your liner enormously.

Exactly how old *is* your current liner? Any dogs in the pool or events that may have caused significant punctures?

I'd stick to what you're doing... liquid chlorine/bleach or a SWG for the win all the way.

As to the guy suggesting Amour All above the water line, I'm not sure I've ever heard it. I would research that idea a bit more. I've personally used a few things on my fiberglass pool under the coping just to avoid water spots but oh-so-carefully as to avoid contaminating the water itself.

Maddie :flower:
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I'm not sure how old the liner is, the house was built in '76 and I bought it last year. I would assume it was replaced at one time atleast if the pool was there since day 1. I knew the liner was faded and wrinkled, sagging, but I didn't know how old it was. Leaking started this winter. The color on the bottom is almost white at this point. The cracks and holes formed and probably worsened as I ran the robot more frequently this winter to clean the leaves. I don't have any pets or kids, so part of me wants to blame the robot or brush that I use occasionally.

I've managed balancing pretty well but stopped brushing during the summer once I found the robot in the tool shed. I started running the pump longer during the summer. Water and liner looked great. Thanks for the input
 
Your liner had unknown history. One way or another it was likely to fail no matter how well you kept your pool.

Replace it and follow TFPC methods and you should be good for a long time.

Pool stores don’t have your best interests in mind like we do.
 
I turn my pump on high when I add any chemicals and let it run on high for about 15 mins or so. I then turn it to low for the rest of run. It has faded quite a bit but I am sure it is from the sun due to how it has faded.

Kim:kim:
 
Was an inline puck chlorinator ever used? Did the previous owner put chemicals in the skimmer? Who knows.

One has to realize that you will always see chemical degradation around the returns before any other part of the pool because that's where the chlorinated water tends to come out of. If there's an inline chlorinator or someone puts pucks in the skimmer, then the plumbing system is going to have water in it that is more chlorinated (and sometimes more acidic) than the bulk of the pool. With the pool pump off, one can still get that water to slowly dribble out of the return as the system tries to attain equilibrium. So it's easy to see why the liner right near a return could be more aggressively attacked. And it's a good reason why one should not add chemicals into the plumbing system but rather into the bulk pool water.
 

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Thanks guys. I wasn't buying into the Pristine Blue, but figured I'd do my own research before I let them fill the pool and balance the water. Probably lock the gate once they remove the vacuum. The armor all thing, I could see where he was coming from, but wasn't sure if that was the right product or even worth doing. I don't like putting foreign substances into a pool that I maintain easily with just bleach. As far as the discoloration goes, I figured the best thing to do was keep pouring slowly and evenly, splitting the dose between each return. Who knows what was done to the pool prior to me. It was way out of balance and there were store chemicals in there, but there was also pucks, bleach and borax. I look forward to getting the new liner and taking care of the pool again this swim season!
 
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