GFCI circuit breaker options?

[ajw22]

From the pool panel, I see three feeder wires coming in, white, blue and dark green. Is the dark green ground or neutral?

Refer back to this pic.

Blue and white wires are connected to hot bus.

Green wire connected to ground bar.

From the 30A breakers at main panel, I see two wires one red one white.

You need to do some further digging if the red wire becomes a blue wire and find an intermediate junction box.

Follow that conduit out of the lower right of the outdoor panel to the junction box below it.

The only option for GFCI to work is to fish a separate natural wire from the pool panel back to the main panel and plug into the netural bus?

Yes.

Or put a small subpanel next to the main panel that will fit a GFCI CB.

 

[ShinDiors]

Refer back to this pic.

Blue and white wires are connected to hot bus.

Green wire connected to ground bar.

You need to do some further digging if the red wire becomes a blue wire and find an intermediate junction box.

Follow that conduit out of the lower right of the outdoor panel to the junction box below it.



Yes.

Or put a small subpanel next to the main panel that will fit a GFCI CB.

To your last comment, I actually have a subpanel next to the main panel, as a matter of fact, in that main panel there ware quite a bit empty/spare breakers that did not connect to anything. So I would need a 30A GFCI if putting it at the main panel side, right?

 

[Ahultin]

To your best option comment, I don't think I can clearly see the whole run to the pool panel, everything seems to be run inside wall/ceiling.

This is where the feeder wire coming out from wall at the pool side.

That's got to be where red turns blue

Is the dark green ground or neutral

Ground - it appears to be the very top wire connected to the ground buss in the main panel

From the 30A breakers at main panel, I see two wires one red one white

Does this exit the main immediately into conduit?

 

[Ahultin]

I actually have a subpanel next to the main panel, as a matter of fact

I assume that is fed by the 70 amp top right in the main? What else does that sub panel feed?

 

[ShinDiors]

And,

Does this exit the main immediately into conduit?

I cannot say for sure there are so many wires coming out of the main panel then into the wall, there is one conduit up top (attached pix) that goes up into the wall towards general direction of pool/backyard. The wall where feeder wires comes out is garage cinderblock wall.

Another question, the pool subpanel left side has an opening right now (was open for the wires to go to polaris/heater before the devices were removed). Is there some matching rubber cover or something I could buy to plug it to avoid water coming in, now that the panel is not under a shed anymore.

 

[ShinDiors]

I assume that is fed by the 70 amp top right in the main? What else does that sub panel feed?

It feeds to the house basement mostly, and hvac systems

 

[Ahultin]

Another question, the pool subpanel left side has an opening right now (was open for the wires to go to polaris/heater before the devices were removed). Is there some matching rubber cover or something I could buy to plug it to avoid water coming in

Halex 1-1/2 in. Knock-Out Seal 60715 - The Home Depot

The 1-1/2 in. Knock-Out Seal is designed to cover exposed holes in steel outlet boxes and other electrical enclosures. This steel fitting is plated in zinc. It is corrosion resistant.

www.homedepot.com

 

[Ahultin]

Nope, there are so many wires coming out of the main panel then into the wall, I did not see any conduit that goes towards the garage

Given the wire colors and the fact that the ground is green vs bare, it's thhn/thwn , not romex so id bet its this conduit which looks like 3/4 or 1. You should be able to get another wire in there with relative ease (dependant on the number of elbows)

 

[ShinDiors]

Given the wire colors and the fact that the ground is green vs bare, it's thhn/thwn , not romex so id bet its this conduit which looks like 3/4 or 1. You should be able to get another wire in there with relative ease (dependant on the number of elbows)

That black one goes back to the house side, but there are a few gray ones goes generally towards the back where the garage is.

BTW thanks for the info on the knock out seal. Don't even know what it is called, was searching "panel cover".

 

[ShinDiors]

Is it easier to put a 30A GFCI breaker for the pool subpanel feeder line at the main panel side? I feel fishing a separate wire with unknown route (mostly buried in wall, ceiling etc) is more complicated?

 

[Hootz]

It depends on if you want to use 120 volt circuits in that sub panel. You can feed from the main with gfci as long as all circuits in the sub panel are 240 volts. It would not be reccommended to use 120 v circuits out of the sub panel because you would have to bridge the ground and neutral (not acceptable).

 

[ShinDiors]

It depends on if you want to use 120 volt circuits in that sub panel. You can feed from the main with gfci as long as all circuits in the sub panel are 240 volts. It would not be reccommended to use 120 v circuits out of the sub panel because you would have to bridge the ground and neutral (not acceptable).

For now, I could not think of any application of 120v from that pool subpanel. My priority of upgrade of current setup would be SWG, VSP, heater in that order, and then maybe landscape lights but that's not really something I care for. You also mentioned that you would not recommend using 120v out from that subpanel, so less likely for me to mess with 120v. In this case, were you saying GFCI at the main panel side would work for me? I assume I would need the 30A version of the GFCI right?

 

[ajw22]

For now, I could not think of any application of 120v from that pool subpanel. My priority of upgrade of current setup would be SWG, VSP, heater in that order, and then maybe landscape lights but that's not really something I care for. You also mentioned that you would not recommend using 120v out from that subpanel, so less likely for me to mess with 120v. In this case, were you saying GFCI at the main panel side would work for me? I assume I would need the 30A version of the GFCI right?

I will caution you that once you load up your pool panel with the other devices a GFCI trip on the central 30A GFCI breaker will be difficult to determine which device is at fault.

In general GFCI breakers should have one or two devices that it powers so it is clear what device is at fault with a GFCI trip.

Pool lights would need to be on a separate 120V GFCI CB that has a neutral in the CB panel.

 

[ShinDiors]

I will caution you that once you load up your pool panel with the other devices a GFCI trip on the central 30A GFCI breaker will be difficult to determine which device is at fault.

In general GFCI breakers should have one or two devices that it powers so it is clear what device is at fault with a GFCI trip.

That makes a lot of sense. I recall seeing a thread here where the poster did double GFCI, main panel has one and then at the equipment each has one separate GFCI. Thanks for the insight.

 

[ShinDiors]

And if I go with the hassle of pulling a neutral wire back to the pool panel, is it better to add a neutral bar in the panel for future use? The pool panel box is Eaton BR, so guess this should work Eaton BR and CH 14 Terminal Plug-On Neutral Ground Bar GBKP14CS - The Home Depot

 

[ajw22]

And if I go with the hassle of pulling a neutral wire back to the pool panel, is it better to add a neutral bar in the panel for future use? The pool panel box is Eaton BR, so guess this should work Eaton BR and CH 14 Terminal Plug-On Neutral Ground Bar GBKP14CS - The Home Depot

For a small panel where you will just have a few neutrals tied together you can connect them all using a wire nut and don't need a neutral bar.

When you have many neutrals in a panel that is more then you can put a wire nut on.

 

[ajw22]

That makes a lot of sense. I recall seeing a thread here where the poster did double GFCI, main panel has one and then at the equipment each has one separate GFCI. Thanks for the insight.

You never need a double GFCI and again if the main panel GFCI trips you have no idea what tripped it.

 

[Ahultin]

And if I go with the hassle of pulling a neutral wire back to the pool panel, is it better to add a neutral bar in the panel for future use? The pool panel box is Eaton BR, so guess this should work Eaton BR and CH 14 Terminal Plug-On Neutral Ground Bar GBKP14CS - The Home Depot

The bar in the box currently is what I would use for neutral then add a ground bar

Eaton 10-Terminal Ground Bar Kit GBK10CS - The Home Depot

Ground bars are required in all panels (main service panels include ground and neutral). To be sure you're selecting the correct ground bar, divide the number of circuits in the panel by 2 and pick the

www.homedepot.com

 

[Ahultin]

Fyi, Looks like there should be existing screw holes for the gbk10 ground bar on the right side of your pool panel, under the long white sticker