GFCI circuit breaker options?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
S

ShinDiors

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2021
227
Northern VA
Pool Size
20500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Single speed pump, the breaker on my main panel in the utility room is a regular 30A that feeds into the pool equipment subpanel (non-GFCI 20A dual pole breakers currently for the pump). I have a rather simple setup, currently just one single speed pool pump that was running from that subpanel.

I read a little bit on the GFCI and noticed that there might be some specific Siemens breaker needed if I am going to VSP in the future. Another concern I have is the false trips as I'm setting my pump on via a intermatic mechanical timer and they run on night hours. I don't want a too sensitive GFCI breaker that cuts the power to the pump during the night without me realizing it.

Can you guys point some direction wrt what breaker I should put and in my current situation if GFCI breaker offers more benefits (electric safety) than concerns (false trip shuts off pump causing not enough circulation)?

Thanks a lot.
 
Last edited:
hexabc said:
Siemens QF220A works in my setup without any problems for over a year now. Feeds Black&Decker 3HP VSP and RJ60+ SWCG.
Click to expand...
Does it matter if my main panel is 30a breaker, but use this 20a gfci at pool side? The polaris and heater shown iin the pix are not connected. That panel seems to have small opening for regular breakers, would the gfci ones fit?

In the future, i may want to add salt system at least, if that matters.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6618.jpeg
    IMG_6618.jpeg
    307.9 KB · Views: 9
Last edited:
The main panel circuit breaker protects the feed (wire) to the subpanel. In your case, 30A breaker in the main panel is good for 10AWG wires. GFCI breakers in the pool subpanel protect individual devices (including feeds) and people using those devices. In your case, QF220A will feed the pump and a future SWCG, which together will consume less or a little more than 10A maximum. The sum of subpanel breakers' nominal values doesn't need to be equal the main panel's breaker value.
 
Last edited:
hexabc said:
The main panel circuit breaker protects the feed (wire) to the subpanel. In your case, 30A breaker in the main panel is good for 10AWG wires. GFCI breakers in the pool subpanel protect individual devices and people using those devices. In your case, QF220A will feed the pump and a future SWCG, which together will consume less or a little more than 10A maximum. The sum of subpanel breakers' nominal values doesn't need to be equal the main panel's breaker value.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification. The cheap side of me want to ask, in my case, will there be problem to use the 230AP (30a GFCI) at the subpanel, because it is cheaper for some reason compared to the 20A version. The wire feeds into the pump from subpanel might only rated for 20A capacity though, as that was done by the PB two years ago, the main panel is there for years.

Also is the Siemens 220A exactly the same as that Pentair version? The pentair version specifies 6ma tripped current, the Siemens brand one seems to be 5mA if i recall correctly.
 
hexabc said:
If you ask whether 30A breaker will work, it will :) But a better match would be 20A.

The "Pentair" version is just a relabelled Siemens. All I can say is QF220A works for me in a similar application without spurious tripping.
Click to expand...
Final clarification, I read in a few threads about the pentair VSP tripping the GFCI and Pentair was recommending the power from GFCI goes directly to the pump, in my case the power from subpanel goes to this mechanical timer which pump (single speed for now). Should I be concerned about this timer in between pump and the subpanel? You can tell that I'm more paranoid about the random tripping to mess up my water chemistry.

Thanks so much.
 
My previous setup was with a single speed pump as well ( My new Circupool RJ60+ install), powered by Intermatic P1353 controller. The QF220A worked without issues.
As far as a VSP powered by a relay (aside from not being recommended), that in itself should not trip GFCI, especially if the VSP starts at a low rpm. But why not use the VSP pump's scheduler instead of an external timer?
 
hexabc said:
My previous setup was with a single speed pump as well ( My new Circupool RJ60+ install), powered by Intermatic P1353 controller. The QF220A worked without issues.
As far as a VSP powered by a relay (aside from not being recommended), that in itself should not trip GFCI, especially if the VSP starts at a low rpm. But why not use the VSP pump's scheduler instead of an external timer?
Click to expand...
Ah, I did not realize the VSPs have built-in timers, that kinda render this "middle-man" mechanic timer pointless unless there are fancier ways of using it.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Sorry to bump up this thread, I noticed that there were two models for this siemens breaker. One is QPF2, the other is QF220A, and on amazon these two have different prices too. Is one newer than another?
 
hexabc said:
My previous setup was with a single speed pump as well ( My new Circupool RJ60+ install), powered by Intermatic P1353 controller. The QF220A worked without issues.
As far as a VSP powered by a relay (aside from not being recommended), that in itself should not trip GFCI, especially if the VSP starts at a low rpm. But why not use the VSP pump's scheduler instead of an external timer?
Click to expand...
Forgot to ask, is it better to have a separate GFCI breakers for the salt system down the road? My current subpanel have two extra breakers previously hooked up with a polaris and a heater (now both gone), so I have real estate for the salt system to have its own breaker, also maybe a new heater. I heard it is good to have the pump (especially vsp) to have its own powerline (not shared with anything else).

Thanks.

Edit: further reading tells me that it may be a bad idea to separate the salt system away from pump's power, as you wouldn't want the salt system to run while pump off and would need a synced timer for the salt system with the VSP on time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hexabc
ShinDiors said:
Sorry to bump up this thread, I noticed that there were two models for this siemens breaker. One is QPF2, the other is QF220A, and on amazon these two have different prices too. Is one newer than another?
Click to expand...

They are identical models. Manufacturers use different model numbers for different channels...


 
BMerrill said:
BoltShield Surge Protector
Pump breaker
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the link. I read a little more about these surge proctors and the location of installation seems to matter a lot. With my picture of my pool subpanel posted above, do you think I have ideal location to install this boltshield? My main panel is far away from the pool subpanel.

From the "further reading" it seems to say "This type of (snap-in) surge protector gives limited protection and may be suitable for use in a main service entrance panel. Since it does not have a ground connection and dump any surge directly to ground it is not recommended to use in an outside pool sub-panel/load center." , and my pool subpanel is outside.
 
ShinDiors said:
Thanks a lot for the link. I read a little more about these surge proctors and the location of installation seems to matter a lot. With my picture of my pool subpanel posted above, do you think I have ideal location to install this boltshield? My main panel is far away from the pool subpanel.

From the "further reading" it seems to say "This type of (snap-in) surge protector gives limited protection and may be suitable for use in a main service entrance panel. Since it does not have a ground connection and dump any surge directly to ground it is not recommended to use in an outside pool sub-panel/load center." , and my pool subpanel is outside.
Click to expand...
Are you comfortable removing the dead front on your pool panel and snapping a photo of the inside?
 
Unless you can pull another wire from the sub panel to the main, I don't know that any of the surge suppressors will work on your pool panel. In addition, I'm sure one of the experts will chime in but without a neutral I'm unsure if a gfci in the pool panel will even work?
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply