GFCI 220v 20 amp breaker throwing on new Pentair VS pump.

[Mayorb]

I am fairly new to the VS pumps, and am wondering if anyone has experienced trouble with the GFCI breaker running a variable speed pump. It is a Pentair pump hooked up to an Easy Touch system. The pump was installed last fall, replacing a standard single speed 2HP pump. There have been breaker issues ever since. The original breaker failed and was replaced about two months ago.

Every 3-5 days the breaker throws. Not a week, not 1 day. Always runs for several days then it trips. On startup the pump is pulling about 11.7 amps, and it's run speed is pulling about 7.5 amps. I know GFCI breakers are code now, but if they can't function with this system what's the point.
Thanks for any thoughts.

P.S. The breaker is mounted in the power center, which is under shed roof. It gets no water on it at all.

 

[JoeGolan]

You do not mention at all if you had the wiring to the pump tested/inspected, water inside wiring conduits can also lead to random tripping of GFCI circuits. You mentioned that it happens every 3-5 days, any chance your irrigation system is is the culprit.....just a thought

 

[DrHorshenschwartz]

I am fairly new to the VS pumps, and am wondering if anyone has experienced trouble with the GFCI breaker running a variable speed pump. It is a Pentair pump hooked up to an Easy Touch system. The pump was installed last fall, replacing a standard single speed 2HP pump. There have been breaker issues ever since. The original breaker failed and was replaced about two months ago.

Every 3-5 days the breaker throws. Not a week, not 1 day. Always runs for several days then it trips. On startup the pump is pulling about 11.7 amps, and it's run speed is pulling about 7.5 amps. I know GFCI breakers are code now, but if they can't function with this system what's the point.
Thanks for any thoughts.

P.S. The breaker is mounted in the power center, which is under shed roof. It gets no water on it at all.

First guess is too wire gauge is too small. You need 12ga or smaller. Guessing you have 14ga.
Higher the number the smaller the diameter. When it's produced the number indicates how many times the wire was rolled through a die to its final diameter.

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

Variable speed pumps often have a lot of "noise" generated by their electronics that gets fed back into the AC power line. In most cases this noise does not cause any problems. In a few cases, the pump noise combined with other noise on the power line can cause the GFCI circuit breaker to randomly trip. Here is what Pentair recommends...

1. Ensure that the power from the GFCI goes directly to the pump and ONLY to the pump. In most cases electricians use the pump's GFCI output to power the pump and other things inside the EasyTouch. Again.. in most cases this is not an issue, but the reason the power should not go anywhere else, is because you want the power going to the pump to be isolated from any additional noise that can happen when a relay is opened or closed, or when another electrical device is turned on...

2. Pentair actually sells a special GFCI circuit breaker for this reason. Some say that this is just a standard breaker with a Pentair sticker on it. It may well be, but I don't see Pentair making much money selling a few circuit breakers so I suspect it is somewhat different.. My pool builder installed one of the Pentair GFCI breakers and I'm sure he did so for a reason as it cost him more for the breaker and I would have not known the difference if he installed a standard GFCI..

3. Since this is a new pump, I would try the above and see if it fixes your issue.. If not, then I would contract Pentair and see if they will replace your pump or at least the controller where all the electronics are located.

Thanks for posting and please keep us up to date with your issue, as your findings may help others..

Jim R.

 

[Mayorb]

I should have given more complete information on the pool's history.

The customer had a 2 HP Whisperflow pump on a 220v 20 amp GFCI breaker, mounted in an Easy Touch power center.
The motor was replaced in Oct '16 with a Pentair VS motor.
The installer never put in the communication cable, so the VS was intermittently getting power as the ET relay was opening and closing on its daily cycle.
Run times on the VS motor had also been set.
The motor display was showing ALARM for power failure with erratic run times, but the GFCI breaker was not tripping.
I started weekly service on this pool last March (no previous history on pool), and noticed the pump trouble.
Right after the comm cable was installed, one leg of the GFCI breaker broke.
The breaker was replaced with a equivalent 220v 20 amp GFCI breaker.
The breaker is tripping every few days.
It is wired with 12 gauge stranded.
The startup speed is pulling 11.7 amps, the running speed pulls 7.4 amps.
The VS pump is the only load on that breaker.

It seems to me that any water causing the trip would have to be underground in the conduit, and in that case the breaker should trip instantly when reset. So ay this point I don't see water as the issue.

It there a product that will take out the electrical "noise"? These breakers are not cheap, and I don't want to run a pool this way. The booster pump is also at risk as it is running when the main pump has tripped. I'm not mentioning names, but it has been suggested that I just replace the GFCI breaker with a standard one. The equipment pad is under a roof extending from a shed, 5 feet from the drip line.

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

Replacing the GFCI with a standard breaker is more of a code violation then anything else... But, even if the risk of failure is very small, there is always that risk...

It would interesting to install a standard breaker as a test, just to see if the breaker continues to pop. No telling how long a test like that might take...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tstex]

"The customer had a 2 HP Whisperflow pump on a 220v 20 amp GFCI breaker, mounted in an Easy Touch power center.
The motor was replaced in Oct '16 with a Pentair VS motor.
The installer never put in the communication cable, so the VS was intermittently getting power as the ET relay was opening and closing on its daily cycle."

First, was the motor just replaced or the entire pump? If just the motor, there could be an incompatibility issue w fixed speed pump and VSP re motor...if this is the case, then they should try a new VSP pump altogether.

Next, who was the installer and did they provide a warranty for their work on parts and labor? Not installing the correct parts is a major red-flag.

Finally, a std thermal breaker would prob fix this, but I would make sure the pump is fixed before any breakers are changed. That pump is tripping for a reason, and if you install a thermal/non GFCI breaker and the pump needs to trip and does not, something could burn-up or someone could get hurt.

Also, if you install a VSP new motor on an older pump/controller/etc., I would first start w a new pump and a Siemens QF220A DB 20AMP GFCI Breaker, which is exactly what Pentair re-labels in their name

 

[JoeGolan]

I should have given more complete information on the pool's history.

The customer had a 2 HP Whisperflow pump on a 220v 20 amp GFCI breaker, mounted in an Easy Touch power center.
The motor was replaced in Oct '16 with a Pentair VS motor.
The installer never put in the communication cable, so the VS was intermittently getting power as the ET relay was opening and closing on its daily cycle.
Run times on the VS motor had also been set.
The motor display was showing ALARM for power failure with erratic run times, but the GFCI breaker was not tripping.
I started weekly service on this pool last March (no previous history on pool), and noticed the pump trouble.
Right after the comm cable was installed, one leg of the GFCI breaker broke.
The breaker was replaced with a equivalent 220v 20 amp GFCI breaker.
The breaker is tripping every few days.
It is wired with 12 gauge stranded.
The startup speed is pulling 11.7 amps, the running speed pulls 7.4 amps.
The VS pump is the only load on that breaker.

It seems to me that any water causing the trip would have to be underground in the conduit, and in that case the breaker should trip instantly when reset. So ay this point I don't see water as the issue.

It there a product that will take out the electrical "noise"? These breakers are not cheap, and I don't want to run a pool this way. The booster pump is also at risk as it is running when the main pump has tripped. I'm not mentioning names, but it has been suggested that I just replace the GFCI breaker with a standard one. The equipment pad is under a roof extending from a shed, 5 feet from the drip line.

Not always 100% true, when the conductors are in use by the motor coming on they will slightly heat up thus changing properties.

It would not take a lot to turn off the breaker and measure the resistance from each conductor to ground using a high scale on your meter. Your readings should always be infinity, if you see any resistance reading then that would indicate a potential problem.

This article covers some other ghost-tripping subjects,please read the 2nd paragraph under "Look for the “Why”

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips

another good article covering leakage currents.

Leakage current measurement basics

 

[TPKnight]

My Pentair pump caused my Eaton GFCI breaker to fail. I got 2+ years out of the breaker, which is longer than most, as I have heard many breakers last 30 days or less when mated to Pentair VS pumps. It was explained to me that these variable speed pumps have a lot of noise in the electrical system and it wreaks havoc on GFCI breakers, some more than others. The only breaker that seems to work is Siemens QF220. Pentair does have their own breaker that is strongly recommended for use with their VS pumps. I did some research, ultimately finding the Pentair tech bulletin, and it states that the Pentair breaker is made by Siemens. Needless to day, mine is swapped out now.

 

[borjis]

Yes Yes Siemens!

I've seen that a lot (trips vs pumps if it is not a Siemens) so I replaced my standard breaker with
a Siemens GFCI last year to bring my panel up to code.

Even though I run a single speed motor at the moment.