Getting the Frogs Out, Kids In

[Xentex]

Hi there. We recently bought a foreclosure and the pool hasn't been touched in 3 years. The cover has very large tears, frays, and holes. For about 1/3 of the pool it's like not having a cover.

There seems to be a pretty healthy ecosystem in there. There are literally dozens of frogs. My kids and I pulled out 10 or so and took them down the hill to the creek, but there are dozens more. They appear to be in full on breeding mode. There are also a variety of skate bugs and water beetles and other stuff swimming around.

I ordered a K-2006C, but that's several days away. I haven't done any testing at all yet. I'm not even sure if the filter works. About the only thing I've done (other than moving the frogs) is throw a little cover pump I found in the yard onto the cover to test it out. Surprisingly, it works, so I put it in an area where the cover was relatively intact hoping to pump out some of the thick green sediment. I've also brushed most of the leaves off the parts of the cover that are stable, but that's a lot like brushing the bottom of a pond.

I'll take a picture or two tomorrow, but my question for now is how do I even get started with this? My inclination is to get the cover off tomorrow, because otherwise it's going to be there until next weekend and my gut tells me the ecosystem is really going to multiply with the warm weather and sun on the shallower parts on the cover. I fear I'll have tadpoles by the thousands if I wait.

I assume the filter works, but it's a more complicated setup than the simple on/off filter I grew up with. There's a separate jacuzzi and a natural gas heater which looks like it can heat both the pool and jacuzzi. There's what I think is an old Jandy Aqualink RS system. There's an LCD control panel for it in the house, but that appears to be broken. I assume I can manually control all the valves, although I haven't tried yet. I assume the bottom drain is covered, along with the skimmers, but I haven't even checked (and obviously can't see to the bottom).

So... any advice for tackling this? The neighbors tell me the prior owners took great care of it, but obviously much has happened over three years.

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome to TFP! So it does indeed sound as though you have a swamp on your hands. That said, you have a couple choices. You use the time you have now before you kit arrives to continue cleaning the pool manually. Sweeping, brushing, and most of all ... scooping all of the junk (living or dead) out of that water. All of that organic material is going to be a challenge for your chlorine (bleach). When it comes to algae, we use the "SLAM" method (link below). It works, but you have to get all that bulk items out of there first. In addition, you need to make sure the equipment you have (pump, filter, valves, etc) all work so that you can begin to circulate water at some point. So even if the automation side is out of order, you want to be able to turn everything on manually - at least the pump with no leaks in plumbing or the filter. Once you have the critters all out and water can move, then you can perform the SLAM. In your situation, the SLAM could easily take a week or more as chlorine takes time to break everything down and clear the water, but it does indeed work and others like you have done the same thing for years.

You also have the option to exchange some or all of the water (down to about 1-2 ft - never empty) if you feel that you need to inspect the pool interior, do maintenance, or simply want to cut down on the SLAM/sanitization time. It may also help with some chemical adjustments depending on your first set of test results.

So read the SLAM link below and make sure to save the other links in my signature. Don't forget to update your sig as well! That's very important. And include the K-200C. Lastly, take pics. You (and we) will want to see that transformation. Great to have you with us.

Now

 

[Xentex]

Took a couple pictures today. I pulled back the section of the cover with the big holes in it to try to keep the sediment confined to the section at the front of the photo.



Looks like there are four pumps. Only one appears to run through the filter (on left in photo). Still haven't tried to power them up.


- - - Updated - - -

A view of what appears to be a ledge for climbing out of the deep end. Looks like I have some scrubbing to do.

 

[Texas Splash]

Yummy! It will be fun to watch this pool change.

 

[kimkats]

In to help and support. Get you a big/deep net and start scooping the gunk out. Have some thing to put it on to get rid of it. I am think wheel barrow or that cover to drag where you want to take it.

How old are the kids? If they are old enough to help that will help things go even faster.

When you are out and about look at what stores are around that carry chlorine. Some pool stores have it at 11. Wal-Mart has their pool shock at 10.

It needs to be easy for you to get to as you will be using a lot in the beginning.

Kim

 

[CaveDiver86]

I really want to follow this transformation. Remember you will want to educate yourself as much as possible on how to clean and maintain your pool. Unfortunately you will run into issues at pool stores offering bad advice and selling a lot of unneeded expensive chemicals. The community here is great. You can trust the advice given here. The SLAM method works and works great. The 2 pool stores in my town both insist we are doing wrong by not using their products. We only go in there for metal treatment because my high iron water. Anyway good luck and keep at it. I went from an near empty frog pond to a clear pool with the help here.

 

[Xentex]

I bought my net and will get started with the scooping of junk after work. I have a couple big pool cover fragments that I'll pile it up on and drag it down to the woods behind the yard.

After letting the pump run on the half covered part yesterday morning and early afternoon I ended up bringing the water level down about 8 inches. That was faster than I expected. It looks like it pumped a fair bit of that sludge out, but kind of hard to tell. But this all made me think about what my best approach is and how to think about my next steps.

How do I think about the trade off between draining much of it, purifying what's left, and then refilling vs. not draining? My cost of water is $10.70 per 1,000 gallons and my rough estimate is it's around a 17,000 gallon pool. So far I haven't found any cheaper sources for chlorine than Home Depot or Walmart, and with either of those I'd be netting about 27c an ounce for chlorine. (I think... The 121 oz 8.25% bleach bottles at $2.99.) Plus my personal time is probably my biggest limiting factor, given that I work M-F and have a couple hours a day after work at best. And I'm looking at about an hour round trip for bleach runs.

As I think about my quest here I'm a little concerned about the possibility of not "getting ahead of it". I'm a little concerned that with only a couple hours a day the biomass in the swamp might outpace my ability to chlorinate it away. I imagine that math would change if I drained some of it? Although I imagine once my water level is below the skimmer I won't be able to run the filter (other than with a vacuum on).

 

[Texas Splash]

How do I think about the trade off between draining much of it, purifying what's left, and then refilling vs. not draining?

That truly is the dilemma, and being honest about your capabilities is right on point. There's no sense paying more for one method or the other, so cost is a significant factor. Time is right there as well as it does no good to attempt a SLAM if you can't be there to maintain the required FC level. A couple other things to keep in mind:
1 - If you do decide to do a massive water exchange, never drain more than about 1-2 ft from the bottom. You always want the pool shell, structure, liner, etc to remain stable and certainly never jeopardize having the pool "float" or shift by a high water table.
2 - Even with a large water exchange, once refilled you'll still need to SLAM, but it should be significantly shorter and not require as much bleach. But the other SLAM principles still apply.

Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!

 

[kimkats]

I would think about this:

-net/scoop big stuff up and out as much as possible

-Think about renting a "trash pump" This is made for gunky stuff. Home depot. That way as you lower the water you are ALSO taking yuck OUT! To keep it really going have water running into the pool at the same time. It will not keep up but should help.

Kim

 

[Xentex]

After about 10 days of struggling with slow (or zero) progress I think I made the wise decision to just drain and start with new water. I kept scooping really foul stuff out and never got more than about 12 inches of visibility.

So with a couple of hired hands we drained, power washed, and then acid washed the whole thing. Was an all day job for 3 men. You can see the degree of algae buildup on the sides in the photos. I brushed these all off, but after a couple days it seemed like it didn't do any good, so that's when I figured draining was the only practical answer.

After getting a couple feet drained out we spotted the dead deer in the shallow end. That was pleasant to clean out, but most definitely confirmed for me that draining was the right choice. So we scrubbed and power washed and acid washed and now I have a big empty pool ready to be refilled (hopefully over the weekend, but we'll see how many gallons per minute my hose puts out).

 

[Texas Splash]

After getting a couple feet drained out we spotted the dead deer in the shallow end. That was pleasant to clean out, but most definitely confirmed for me that draining was the right choice.

Wow! Yes, I would say you made the right choice.

 

[travelcat18]

I think you need to change the title of this post to deer and not frogs. Glad you discovered this.

 

[mclifford]

1 - If you do decide to do a massive water exchange, never drain more than about 1-2 ft from the bottom. You always want the pool shell, structure, liner, etc to remain stable and certainly never jeopardize having the pool "float" or shift by a high water table.
!

Isn't this a Hydrostatic relief port in the picture with the dead deer? or is that the shallow end umbrella holder?

 

[smoses]

I have nothing to offer except a Bravo on the deer extraction.

Cant wait to see pics of it clean.

 

[Xentex]

So now that I'm moving forward, here is my plan. Please feel free to critique and suggest alternatives.

1) pull the plugs on the bottom drains, install the new drain covers
2) start the long hose refill process
3) test my water after I have a couple feet of it in so I know what I'm dealing with. I have my Taylor kit.
4) start adding CYA as I'm going, since I know it's coming in at zero and I'm aiming for 50ppm. I'm thinking maybe add half of what I expect to need during the fill process, just to have a baseline
5) if it's way low on CH (which I suspect), add a conservative amount of that as I go as well
6) add my bleach as I get toward full

Now the part that I'm less certain about is the filter and pump. The pool hasn't been touched in 3 years so I don't really know if all the equipment still works (it was properly winterized, fortunately). Is there anything productive I can do to test it before the pool is full? Can I backwash the filter once I have a couple feet of water covering the bottom drains? I just want to figure out if I'm going to have to replace something mechanical before I get the whole thing filled up.

I will be installing a SWG down after it's all going, but I figured I'm better off getting it all operating well without the SWG, then adjusting from there after it's all working smoothly.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't this a Hydrostatic relief port in the picture with the dead deer? or is that the shallow end umbrella holder?

Yes, that's a hydrostatic relief port. We pulled that after we had the deer all cleaned out. There is one there in the shallow end, and one half way down the slope toward the deep end. Right now the one on the slope is still out (because the pool is empty) but we put the one in the shallow end back in for no particularly good reason. I figured I'd be replacing the water starting today and wasn't expecting a big rain or anything so I put that one back in.

 

[Dirk]

I'll leave your questions to the experts here (you're in good hands), and also just ignore the part about the deer. Yikes.

If... your pool is empty or nearly empty, and your fill water is metered in some way (typically a water meter near the curb), here's a tip for you.

Just before you start your fill, go out to the meter and take a picture of the numbers.

Start your fill. Turn off irrigation. Use as little water in the house as possible. Or count showers and toilet flushes if you want a slightly more accurate result.

When the water level hits half way up the skimmer opening (or wherever you think the pool is "full"), take another shot of the meter.

Once all the dust settles, you can later use the meter readings to calculate the volume of your pool. And given the shape and complex slopes of your pool, it's going to be tough to get a volume by calculating dimensions.

You'll find having an accurate number for volume will help you greatly in testing and dosing chemicals. If you can spare a little bandwidth to do this, you'll be glad you did.

You can subtract a bit to account for what you used in the house while the pool was filling. A guesstimate is fine, it'll still be very close, close enough for testing and dosing, and way closer than trying to figure out your volume any other way.

Good luck with your pool. Can't wait to see it nice and clean. The shape, the diving board, the slide. All awesome. Just keep chanting through this phase: it's going to be worth it, it's going to be worth it, it's going to be worth it, it's going to be worth it, it's going to be worth it...

 

[Xentex]

Good idea on metering the water, I hadn't thought of that. It should actually be pretty easy because we're not living in the house yet (so no other water consumption) and the meter is in my basement.

 

[ptxAggie08]

The new photos arent working, and this sounds like something that is working checking out. Ready to see a clean, trouble free pool....!

 

[Dirk]

Good idea on metering the water, I hadn't thought of that. It should actually be pretty easy because we're not living in the house yet (so no other water consumption) and the meter is in my basement.

That's ideal! If no other water is used during the fill, you'll have a very accurate number (subject to the accuracy of the meter, which could be as much as 1-1.5%, but that's nothin' in the grand scheme).

If you want an even more accurate number, it's important to shut down the fill right at the level the pool will be at most of the time. Like I said, that's usually at about half way up the skimmer opening. Sometime there's a line kind'a permanently etched into the tile where the water sits. Again, it's not super critical, anything close will be fine for figuring out how much chlorine or acid to put in.

If you put a piece of tape where the water level should stop, then turning off the fill hose at the right time is a simple matter. It's not always easy to see where "half way" is on the skimmer opening when there's water in it, because of reflections and refraction.

 

[kimkats]

OH DEER! So this is the main reason the cover was tore up Sad for all.

Yeah good thing you did the drain. Did anyone lose their lunch while removing said deer? ewwwww

You can go ahead and test the water right out of the hose. It will not change that much from the hose to being in the pool. Know you should not test for the CYA as you will be adding that. I would wait until the pool about about half full before you start doing the CYA as we don't want to mess up your nice, clean plaster.

I really want to see the pool clean PLEASE! :angel:

Is that a slide over on the right side? Is it a beach entry pool? Oh what fun this will be to get it up and running.

It is time for you to fill in your signature so we can see your equipment and such at a glance. Go to settings (top right), edit signature (middle left). Put in kind and size (gals best guess for now) as well as what kind of filter (guessing sand since you said backwash) and any special features it might have. Oh and don't forget put in your test kit.

Equipment- You can and should open the filter to see what it looks like just to be on the safe side. The sand should be loose and be easy to stir. Just make sure to not move or unseat the down pipe.You can fill up the pump basket and the filter with water and have the hose down the skimmer adding water as you go. This should allow you to at least see if the pump runs at all. You will not want to run it for long. Just long enough to say "yep it runs".

Kim