Gas Heater install $10,000?!?!

[arl16]

Hi -

I'm in Maryland, looking to add a heater to our 29k IG pool. I have natural gas, but have been told the pressure is insufficient, and I'll need to upgrade to 2PSIG as well as a new meter.

Looks like it's gonna be:
~ $5,000 for the Gas & Electric companyto run a new line to the house, and do the pressure and meter upgrade.
~ $4,500 to run my plumber to run a new line to the opposite side of the house to the needed location of the heater and put regulators on all of my appliances to get back down to 1/4 PSIG.
~ Few hundred bucks (?) for my pool guy to do the minor plumbing / hook-up to the heater
~$10,000 - Does that seem normal?!?!

Oh yeah, I still have to buy a heater. So what, ~ $15k all in?! Doesn't seem worth it. I've got a panel outside for electric. Seems like a heat pump will end up being way cheaper. No?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Who told you the line running from the street to your house has insufficient pressure? Was it the gas company?

It’s not at all unusual to have to upgrade a gas meter because pool heaters use way more gas than any other appliance BUT gas companies usually do that for free because they know they’ll be selling you more gas.

Running a line from the meter to the pool pad can be pricey. 10 years ago around here a buried PVC gas line cost $15/ft to run. Not cheap but doable. If the plumber wants to run your line above ground and outside the house then it’s black galvanized steel pipe that handles 2psi and then risers/regulators at the pad to get it back down to 14” WC. That can be pricey too. $4,500 seems very high so you might want to get a few more quotes on that.

A gas heater will run $4k

You can do the plumbing hook up yourself and, depending on what pool equipment you have, you can do all the electrical work too. It’s not hard.

But if you’re staring at $15k to get a full install then it’s not worth it unless your electrical utility rates are sky high. A heat pump does potentially need a 240V/60A electrical hook up so you need to know if that much amperage is available at the pad.

 

[Newdude]

Seems like a heat pump will end up being way cheaper. No?

Depends if your electrical panel needs upgrading also.

On a serious note, even if you did need a panel up grade it would likey be cheaper. It could be just as bad though. At my old house I was *thisclose* to needing to replace my 40 year old buried line to the transformer 350 ft away when the power company signed off on it. Then the 200A panel only cost $1500 to swap.

 

[convan23]

We did a heat pump instead of gas heater on our new build for similar reasons...the gas line alone was going to cost us 4k+, w/o gas meter or heater costs. Our pool is on complete opposite side of property from the gas meter, would've been a very lengthy run. Our PB told us that per foot, gas lines are the most expensive line items on a build. For us, a fairly high-end heat pump with chiller capability and a bigger sub-panel at the pool was about the same price as gas heater all in. Since we don't have a spa, the heat pump seemed like a better use of funds - cheaper to run, we don't need to heat the pool up to spa-level temps, and the chill function in the summer may be nice.

 

[PoolGate]

You live very close to me. Let me guess, Malick? They are the biggest ripoff, ever. They quoted me $4500 to run 75 feet of line 1/2 of that above ground and the trench already done by the electrician. My gas meter was upgraded for free by Washington Gas (you have them too?). But, the service to my house was already adequate for the higher PSI. If your service is not already enough then a new line is needed. Go through the gas company for all of that. I ended up using my builders quote at $2k. He thought that would be high so advised to find someone cheaper. He was by fart the cheapest though so I am glad I had that option. A heat pump will work fine for you. You can keep it 90 all summer my neighbor does with only a heat pump. Without a spa, you don't need gas.

 

[arl16]

Who told you the line running from the street to your house has insufficient pressure? Was it the gas company?

It’s not at all unusual to have to upgrade a gas meter because pool heaters use way more gas than any other appliance BUT gas companies usually do that for free because they know they’ll be selling you more gas.

Running a line from the meter to the pool pad can be pricey. 10 years ago around here a buried PVC gas line cost $15/ft to run. Not cheap but doable. If the plumber wants to run your line above ground and outside the house then it’s black galvanized steel pipe that handles 2psi and then risers/regulators at the pad to get it back down to 14” WC. That can be pricey too. $4,500 seems very high so you might want to get a few more quotes on that.

A gas heater will run $4k

You can do the plumbing hook up yourself and, depending on what pool equipment you have, you can do all the electrical work too. It’s not hard.

But if you’re staring at $15k to get a full install then it’s not worth it unless your electrical utility rates are sky high. A heat pump does potentially need a 240V/60A electrical hook up so you need to know if that much amperage is available at the pad.

They said my current gas can handle up to 615k BTUs, and between my furnace, hot water heater, range, gas fireplace, and outdoor grill, I'm at ~ 330k BTUs, so the 400k BTU pool heater would kick me over. (Although, I wouldn't be using the furnace/fireplace & pool heater at the same time... hmmm...)

But they also said, that if it's a standard household item that pushes me over my limit - like a dryer, tankless water heater, range, etc - it would be free. The rep/contractor assigned to me said that they say the pool heater is considered a luxury item that will only be used a couple months a year, they don't see it as worth it to them to pay for the work. He was pretty cool, and we talked about "saying" I'm adding a tankless water heater & dryer, but he said they'd probably make me show the plumbing work was done first.

My plumber was looking at running it in the unfinished part of my basement and through a wall, but also was factoring in putting regulators on everything. I've used him before and he's always had good prices - but he said costs on everything are through the roof. (News flash!)

But you do need more than 1/4 PSIG, no? That's what I have, and the application only shows the option of upgrading to 2 PSIG.

 

[arl16]

You live very close to me. Let me guess, Malick? They are the biggest ripoff, ever. They quoted me $4500 to run 75 feet of line 1/2 of that above ground and the trench already done by the electrician. My gas meter was upgraded for free by Washington Gas (you have them too?). But, the service to my house was already adequate for the higher PSI. If your service is not already enough then a new line is needed. Go through the gas company for all of that. I ended up using my builders quote at $2k. He thought that would be high so advised to find someone cheaper. He was by fart the cheapest though so I am glad I had that option. A heat pump will work fine for you. You can keep it 90 all summer my neighbor does with only a heat pump. Without a spa, you don't need gas.

No, not Malick - I just talked to a plumber who I've used for a bunch of stuff. Apparently, I only have the 1/4PSIG, and don't believe it has the capacity for more. But BGE is who is telling me they won't pay for the street to meter install. I'm definitely leaning towards heat pump.

Now... recommendations?

 

[PoolGate]

No, not Malick - I just talked to a plumber who I've used for a bunch of stuff. Apparently, I only have the 1/4PSIG, and don't believe it has the capacity for more. But BGE is who is telling me they won't pay for the street to meter install. I'm definitely leaning towards heat pump.

Now... recommendations?

For a heat pump I would do 100% of the installation myself. Soup to nuts.

 

[arl16]

For a heat pump I would do 100% of the installation myself. Soup to nuts.

Yeah, I can probably do that - not too complicated, and a buddy is actually an electrician who can help. But I haven't begun shopping for heat pumps. Looking for advice - is the Raypak heat pump as highly recommended as their gas heaters?

 

[ajw22]

They said my current gas can handle up to 615k BTUs, and between my furnace, hot water heater, range, gas fireplace, and outdoor grill, I'm at ~ 330k BTUs, so the 400k BTU pool heater would kick me over. (Although, I wouldn't be using the furnace/fireplace & pool heater at the same time... hmmm...)

I think you are close enough without a gas meter upgrade.

I would try it and only spend money on the gas meter upgrade if it became a problem which I doubt it will be. You are not going to running all the house natural gas appliances at the same time as the heater in the summer.

 

[PoolGate]

I think you are close enough without a gas meter upgrade.

I would try it and only spend money on the gas meter upgrade if it became a problem which I doubt it will be. You are not going to running all the house natural gas appliances at the same time as the heater in the summer.

In this area I don't think you'd find a gas plumber to do this due to the BTU shortfall. And all gas work around here requires an inspection if it is done legitimately. I can attest my neighbor on 100% heatpump can keep his pool over 90 all season long (mem day to lab day). I wish I had gotten a heat pump.

Buy as large a BTU heat pump as you can find. You won't extend your season but I'll also tell you we have extended the season 1 time using a ship-ton of gas. It's $60-$100/day off season to heat the pool with gas. The big thing you'll miss is nice hot water coming out of the pool returns. And that is so very nice to be honest!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

From the street main to your property shutoff valve (before the meter) is 2psi. It’s only when the pipe comes up out of the ground that it goes to a regulator and then into the meter. After the regulator, is 14” WC. Then into the meter. Then after the meter it goes into your house. I would be incredibly surprised if they ran only 1/2 psi from the street to the your household meter. That’s just not how residential gas is done … at least not here in AZ.

Take a picture of your outdoor meter with all the plumbing and regulator. Take a picture of the faceplate of your meter. Then we can talk about how to do gas.

It sounds to me like your being fed a bunch of bull-feathers but I’m always willing to be wrong.

 

[Foxer]

I've got to upgrade my meter to handle the higher BTU, but like @JoyfulNoise said, I've already got 2psi from the street. In my case It's ~$385 for the gas company to upgrade the meter itself, then I'll have a regulator at the meter that'll reduce pressure back down to 14" WC into the house for the appliances, and the same at the heater itself. I'm digging the trench, and running the line to the equipment itself, only using a plumber to hook things up at the meter itself. $10k seems like a lot to me.

 

[arl16]

I think you are close enough without a gas meter upgrade.

I would try it and only spend money on the gas meter upgrade if it became a problem which I doubt it will be. You are not going to running all the house natural gas appliances at the same time as the heater in the summer.

Yeah, but do I not need 2PSIG? If I have to upgrade the line from the street, that's where I get killed. I think...

 

[Foxer]

Yeah, if you have to actually upgrade the line from the street, I'd be looking at other options. Like Matt said, that would be unusual for my area as well, but is possible. I would confirm what specifically needs to be upgraded. Did you talk to your utility company? Or just a contractor that works for them? I'd call again to confirm then go from there.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, but do I not need 2PSIG? If I have to upgrade the line from the street, that's where I get killed. I think...

If you want to run small diameter galvanized pipe (3/4”) along your wall and through your attic, then the pressure needs to be 2psi so that sufficient gas volume can be delivered to the heater. A 400,000 btu/hr heater uses 400 cubic ft of gas per hour. At 14” WC and 100ft of pipe length would need a minimum of 1-1/2” diameter pipe to get 400kBTU/hr of gas delivered to the heater. At 2psi you can use a half that diameter or less and just regulate the pressure down once the pipe gets to the equipment pad.

In my setup, the equipment pad is over 150’ from the meter. Because we were digging all new trenches, we opted to do 2” diameter buried PVC pipe on the low pressure side of the meter (14” WC) and no regulator at the heater. Every setup is different but it’s often much better to use small diameter pipe at higher pressure and regulate at the heater so you can have better control over pressure losses in long run lengths.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I would think they should also be able to install a tee downstream of the 2psi regulator, to split the run, one leg to the house, the other to the pool. Then at the house you install a single pressure regulator to reduce down to the 9" or whatever you are currently running, so that you do not have to install a regulator at every appliance. So you essentially only have the pool heater line that is running 2psi.

Then at the pool pad, another regulator is installed to reduce the pressure for the heater.

--Jeff

 

[Foxer]

I would think they should also be able to install a tee downstream of the 2psi regulator, to split the run, one leg to the house, the other to the pool. Then at the house you install a single pressure regulator to reduce down to the 9" or whatever you are currently running, so that you do not have to install a regulator at every appliance. So you essentially only have the pool heater line that is running 2psi.

Then at the pool pad, another regulator is installed to reduce the pressure for the heater.

--Jeff

This is exactly what I’ll be doing.