From a Basic Lawn to Private Resort - We Have A Pool! Controlling Pollen...

[elleb]

Hi Georgia Newbie Here,

First time, soon to be pool owners here. We are in the contract signing phase but before we lock things in, I wanted to get some eyes on our pool on paper and make any changes to things we may or may not need to run our pool once all is said and done. Please tell us if something is missing or is overkill. So here are the specs so far:

Pool

Length:​	44'2" FT​
Width across​	25'7" FT​
Depth:​	3.5' x 6' FT​

Gallons: 24000

Shape
Roman/Grecian

Style
Modern/Traditional

Spa
Square Spillover
Dimension 7'
Area:
12" dam wall with 6 therapy jets

Rebar
4 bar bond beam with ½ inch steel; 3/8 inch rebar tied 12 inch on center each way throughout plus:
12 inch on center in transition slope by 20 feet length
12 inch on center in deep end coves
4 inch dobe blocks

Pipes
3 inch suction line;
3" inch suction line for all pump motors larger than 1.0 hp
2 inch return line

45 degree elbows​	​
Separate dedicated lines for surface skimmer and bottom suction​

Heavy duty surface skimmer
Jandy Ball Valves
Spa Jets with adjustable eyeball fittings (spa only)
Hose bib at pad for draining pool
All circulation lines are under pressure test throughout construction

Shotcrete
6 sack pneumatically applied shotcrete
Floor shot first, rebound removed
All shotcrete is measured by a certified weighmaster

Electric
Breakers at pad included
110 volt GFI protected light circuit with outlet
220 volt pump circuit
Jandy Control System
Bonding as per N.E.C. Code
(3) Led Lighting

What's Making Things Tick
Jandy Stealth Series pump
High performance circulation pump 2 1/2 hp MULTI SPEED
Premier Salt Generator
Jandy C Series
460 sq.ft. Cartridge Filter
Heater: Jandy JXI 400,000 btu (spa)
Maintenance Kit includes;
Telescoping pole, Brush, Leaf Skimmer, Test Kit, Robotic Vacuum .
Anti-vortex main drain grate (DUAL)

The Pretty Stuff
Pebble Plaster
Travertine Coping
Baja Shelf with 3 bubblers
Paver Decking
Glass trim tile for safety

Side Note
Spa will have to be run on propane as our home is total electric.

Thank you for helping us out! We'll be sure to bring you along for the build process.

 

[HermanTX]

Hi and welcome to TFP.
It was indicated that skimmer and drain was on separated dedicated lines which is great. but with a 24k gal pool I would recommend 2 skimmers placed on opposite ends. Also, each skimmer should be an independent line back to the equipment pad.

I don't know what a Premier Salt Generator (SWCG) is but you have Jandy equipment so hopefully that is a Jandy mfg. brand. The SWCG should be rated 2x your pool volume. Jandy makes a AquaPure 1400 that is rated to 40k gals which should be OK for your pool. Verify with the PB what he is supplying.

The Jandy Stealth pump is just a 2 speed pump. Not sure why the PB would offer that unless he is trying to get rid of inventory. You really want a Variable Speed pump - especially with a SWCG. Jandy makes a new ePump and a FloPro pump that are variable speed. This is critical to get a VS pump now.

What is the Jandy Control System model? This is your automation system in addition to your electrical control system. It should be an AquaLink RS 6 or 8 system that provides remote control via phone app or direct by PC.

I am sure others will chime in, but this is items that caught my attention.

 

[elleb]

Hi HermanTx,

Thank you for your help! I've been reading here for a little over a month and I indeed asked how many skimmers they would be installing. Here's the response that I received:

"Your pool will come with 2 skimmers and probably 6 returns. We typically do 4 but once the engineers get ahold of your design they will probably add another return or 2. Our filter is a 460 filter. We put a bigger filter on all of our pools to make sure it lasts longer before having to clean. You're also going to recieve a Polaris 8460 robotic vacuum as well. And yes everything will be automated and ran through an app on your phone as well. You're going to get a 2.7hp variable speed pump from Jandy. Bigger than what the pool truly needs anyway."

We may want to change out that Polaris robot though, now that I'm looking at it. Also all of their equipment is JANDY. I asked if they had Pentair or Hayward and was told they only carry Jandy. Do you think they are pulling my leg? I will ask if the SWCG is the Aquapure 1400 and the flopro pump this morning also. Do we need that pool heater if we are heating with propane? We are clueless about that.

We won't be test stripping it either. I plan to order the TF100 PRO SWCG test kit as soon as dig day arrives .

Thank you again!

 

[ajw22]

Pool

Length:​	44'2" FT​
Width across​	25'7" FT​
Depth:​	3.5' x 6' FT​

Gallons: 24000

Given that the dimensions are specified to the inch is that guaranteed inside dimensions after plaster?

45 degree elbows​	​
Separate dedicated lines for surface skimmer and bottom suction​

Heavy duty surface skimmer

What does "heavy duty skimmer" mean? What model?

Skimmers should be placed into the prevailing wind.

Jandy Ball Valves

No ball valves. All diverter valves.

Spa Jets with adjustable eyeball fittings (spa only)

You going to have a spa air blower?

Electric
Breakers at pad included
110 volt GFI protected light circuit with outlet
220 volt pump circuit

Pump CB must be GFCI.

Only two CBs?

Jandy Control System

iAqualink? RS??

(3) Led Lighting

What model lights?

Note that many pool LED lights last only a few years and are expensive to replace.

What's Making Things Tick
Jandy Stealth Series pump
High performance circulation pump 2 1/2 hp MULTI SPEED

Multispeed pump or variable speed pump?

Premier Salt Generator

Model and capacity?

Baja Shelf with 3 bubblers

How will the bubblers be controlled?

Other helpful information...

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[HermanTX]

Your pool will come with 2 skimmers and probably 6 returns. We typically do 4 but once the engineers get ahold of your design they will probably add another return or 2.

Great. Post the pool layout graphic once they provide that. Just ensure that each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad. Also, each line should have a Jandy diverter valve on it rather than the "ball" valve. The diverter valve is more expensive but it allows it to be repaired without removing it from the plumbing line. The ball valve over time will stick and only repair option is to cut it out and replace it.

Our filter is a 460 filter. We put a bigger filter on all of our pools to make sure it lasts longer before having to clean.

This is great as well. Bigger is always better for a cartridge filter as it increases the time between cleanings. Some pool owners go a whole year before cleaning.

You're also going to recieve a Polaris 8460 robotic vacuum as well.

Agree it may be best to upgrade this. The new Alpha IQ+ seems to be a good choice.

And yes everything will be automated and ran through an app on your phone as well.

Ask PB to confirm which automation system. It should be an AquaLink RS 6 or 8. They sell smaller models but I would avoid those.

You're going to get a 2.7hp variable speed pump from Jandy. Bigger than what the pool truly needs anyway."

I think the PB is trying to make you feel good. I have a 3hp pump and my pool is quite smaller than yours. The goal of a VS pump is to have the capability to run at high speed if needed (3450rpm is max), but most of us run at 1200 to 2000rpm which saves quite a bit on electricity costs. VS pumps are most efficient (from a cost POV) when run at low speeds for long duration. VS pumps are ideal for saltwater pools to run the SWCG at low output over 20-24 hrs. Since you have a heater you will most likely need to run your VS pump above 2400rpm when you have the heater on. Also, same with spa, you will run it higher for better jet action - but both of these scenarios are on an "as needed" basis. Majority of time your VS pump will be running under 2000rpm. Look at the Jandy ePump as that is their latest models.

Also all of their equipment is JANDY. I asked if they had Pentair or Hayward and was told they only carry Jandy. Do you think they are pulling my leg?

Some PB get a better deal from a mfg. if they solely carry that one brand. So yes they could be only able to provide Jandy.

Definitely you need the AquaPure 1400 so don't settle for less.

I can't answer the question regarding propane as I only have NG. However, I have a friend who uses propane for his heater and is satisfied with that. That is my only point of reference. You can research more on this forum to see what others have said.

Great that you have ordered your test kit. That will be needed once you have water in the pool.

 

[elleb]

Given that the dimensions are specified to the inch is that guaranteed inside dimensions after plaster?

Yes very close give or take the 2 inches for plaster

What does "heavy duty skimmer" mean? What model?

Waiting on answer

Skimmers should be placed into the prevailing wind.

Yes this will be done.

No ball valves. All diverter valves.

Nice catch, I don't know how I missed this before! Thanks. I noted this to PB this morning.

You going to have a spa air blower?

Yes.

Pump CB must be GFCI.

Only two CBs?

GFI typo, will be GFCI. How many CBs do we need?

iAqualink? RS??

iAqualink

What model lights?

Note that many pool LED lights last only a few years and are expensive to replace.

Multispeed pump or variable speed pump?

We're requesting the ePump

Model and capacity?

Meeting with PB to discuss in detail.

How will the bubblers be controlled?

Waiting for response from PB.

Other helpful information...

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you so much for this!

 

[elleb]

Great. Post the pool layout graphic once they provide that. Just ensure that each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad. Also, each line should have a Jandy diverter valve on it rather than the "ball" valve. The diverter valve is more expensive but it allows it to be repaired without removing it from the plumbing line. The ball valve over time will stick and only repair option is to cut it out and replace it.


This is great as well. Bigger is always better for a cartridge filter as it increases the time between cleanings. Some pool owners go a whole year before cleaning.


Agree it may be best to upgrade this. The new Alpha IQ+ seems to be a good choice.


Ask PB to confirm which automation system. It should be an AquaLink RS 6 or 8. They sell smaller models but I would avoid those.


I think the PB is trying to make you feel good. I have a 3hp pump and my pool is quite smaller than yours. The goal of a VS pump is to have the capability to run at high speed if needed (3450rpm is max), but most of us run at 1200 to 2000rpm which saves quite a bit on electricity costs. VS pumps are most efficient (from a cost POV) when run at low speeds for long duration. VS pumps are ideal for saltwater pools to run the SWCG at low output over 20-24 hrs. Since you have a heater you will most likely need to run your VS pump above 2400rpm when you have the heater on. Also, same with spa, you will run it higher for better jet action - but both of these scenarios are on an "as needed" basis. Majority of time your VS pump will be running under 2000rpm. Look at the Jandy ePump as that is their latest models.


Some PB get a better deal from a mfg. if they solely carry that one brand. So yes they could be only able to provide Jandy.

Definitely you need the AquaPure 1400 so don't settle for less.

I can't answer the question regarding propane as I only have NG. However, I have a friend who uses propane for his heater and is satisfied with that. That is my only point of reference. You can research more on this forum to see what others have said.

Great that you have ordered your test kit. That will be needed once you have water in the pool.

Is the heater in our quote a pool heater or for the spa? Trying to make sense of it since we are using propane for the spa. Not trying to buy something we don't need.

I will post the layout soon.

 

[ajw22]

Spa Jets with adjustable eyeball fittings (spa only)

You going to have a spa air blower? - Yes.

Note that the attached Jandy Blower Installation Manaul says - "Do not install adjustable jets. These may cause excessive back pressure."

GFI typo, will be GFCI. How many CBs do we need?

I don't know the complete equipment list but it will be more than those two CBs.

Your spa blower gets a CB.

 

[HermanTX]

Is the heater in our quote a pool heater or for the spa? Trying to make sense of it sice we are using propane for the spa. Not trying to buy something we don't need.

The plumbing will be set up that you will have 2 modes - one is Pool Mode and the other is Spa Mode.
In pool mode the flow will be suction from pool and return to pool.
In spa mode the flow will be suction from spa and return to spa.
So the flow will pass through the pump, filter and heater regardless of what mode you are in. So you can heat either body of water.

 

[elleb]

The plumbing will be set up that you will have 2 modes - one is Pool Mode and the other is Spa Mode.
In pool mode the flow will be suction from pool and return to pool.
In spa mode the flow will be suction from spa and return to spa.
So the flow will pass through the pump, filter and heater regardless of what mode you are in. So you can heat either body of water.

Thank you so much!!!

 

[elleb]

Note that the attached Jandy Blower Installation Manaul says - "Do not install adjustable jets. These may cause excessive back pressure."

I don't know the complete equipment list but it will be more than those two CBs.

Your spa blower gets a CB.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

 

[elleb]

Is there anything else that stands out like a sore thumb guys?

 

[elleb]

Here's a rendering of the pool layout.

 

[ajw22]

Confirm in writing the depth quoted is water depth from the middle of the skimmer and not pool depth from top of the bond beam or coping.

 

[elleb]

Confirm the depth quoted is water depth from the middle of the skimmer and not pool depth from top of the bond beam or coping.

Ok will do.

 

[HermanTX]

Here's a rendering of the pool layout.

Thanks for the graphics. I like that you have the long dimension of the pool going away from the home.

It doesn't show the placement of the skimmers. What are the prevailing winds for your yard?

The planning stage is best time to think about functionality.
Do you want those bubblers to operate when you are in Spa Mode? If not, then no issue. The bubblers will only operate when in Pool mode because flow is back to the pool. If you want those to operate when in Spa Mode you will need to have a separate dedicated pump to run them. Probably not worth it in your scenario however, some owners with multiple waterfalls wish to have that capability while sitting in a heated spa; thus, a secondary pump to have suction from the pool and return to the water feature flowing back into the pool.

 

[elleb]

Thanks for the graphics. I like that you have the long dimension of the pool going away from the home.

It doesn't show the placement of the skimmers. What are the prevailing winds for your yard?

The planning stage is best time to think about functionality.
Do you want those bubblers to operate when you are in Spa Mode? If not, then no issue. The bubblers will only operate when in Pool mode because flow is back to the pool. If you want those to operate when in Spa Mode you will need to have a separate dedicated pump to run them. Probably not worth it in your scenario however, some owners with multiple waterfalls wish to have that capability while sitting in a heated spa; thus, a secondary pump to have suction from the pool and return to the water feature flowing back into the pool.

Yeah, this is just a sales rendering. We aren't at the skimmer location step, but I will go in the yard and place some water in a few cups or buckets to see how the winds flow. We have trees surrounding our yard. I will place this on our list of questions to ask.

 

[elleb]

So the builder stated that the SWCG is Natures 2 Fusion salt and mineral. Thoughts vs Aquapure1400?

 

[HermanTX]

So the builder stated that the SWCG is Natures 2 Fusion salt and mineral. Thoughts vs Aquapure1400?

This is a 2 "canister" system. One side is mineral which is good for 6 months and adds copper and other "minerals" to your pool. None of which are good or needed. You have to buy a new mineral cartridge every 6 months

The other side is similar to a AP1400 or AP700 salt system.
There are several members that have this and have removed the mineral side and only use the salt system.
Basically, you are paying for something you do not need.
I think @PoolGate has this and can provide better information.

 

[PoolGate]

FusionSoft 700/1400 is great I love it. It comes with a blank-out plate for the mineral side just never remove it or put a mineral cartridge in. It also comes with a starter cartridge and your builder may give you one real cartridge. Sell them both on eBay. But grab them before the builder has a chance to put them in and hide them somewhere. Make it clear to him you do not want the cartridge installed. Exact same specs and controls as the AquaPure 700/1400.

Make sure he specs out the 1400 series. Usually the FusionSoft is cheaper for the builder than the AquaPure since they are counting on you purchasing expensive mineral cartridge consumables. Again though the saltwater generator portion is functionally identical.