Freeze Mode Catastrophe

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RedScare

RedScare

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Feb 1, 2015
105
The Woodlands TX
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
OK, not sure what happened here. While I was out walking my dog, freeze mode enabled on my PSL4. It is brand new, so I am unsure what it does when it comes on. But, when I got home, the entire spa was empty! The pool is clearly overfilled, so excess water is draining through the overflow.

I have turned the valves to return to the spa, and it is slowly filling back up. The only other thing that was different is that I opened my polaris plug so that water could flow through that pipe. Something got way out of sync. Any ideas on how to get it back under control? I have turned off the polaris valve.
 
Check what modes you have selected for Freeze. Also, check the actuated valve toggle switches that they are in the right settings.
 
Yes. On summary, it says freeze mode is enabled, but I can't see a place to look at the setup.

Now, the pool schedule seems to be back on, which would fill the spa and overflow to the pool. I'll keep watching it, but I'd love to know what happened. :ROFLMAO:
 
No, I only have ScreenLogic. Actually, I also have Pentair Home for the Intelliflow3, but not SL Config. I'll look for that.

Will downloading and setting that up cause me more problems tonight, or will it sync up fairly easily?
 
Red,

Not familiar with "Home" but assume it is used to control your IntelliFlo3 when you do not have ScreenLogic which should control the pump, the valves and your general pool operation.

Downloading the app should not make any difference unless you use it to set different EasyTouch parameters. It is just like ScreenLogic but it allows you to set pump speeds and set up Circuits. It is more of a programming module, while ScreenLogic is more of a control module.

Sounds to me like your pump is being controlled by "Home" and everything else is being controlled by ScreenLogic. Does not sound like a good plan to me.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Correct on all points. PSL4 was installed with a Superflo VS pump. It was not ideal, so I purchased an Intelliflo3. When setting up the Intelliflo3, it said to download Home. It worked, so I left it alone for now. I moved the Superflo over to run the waterfall. It also works, but is not set up exactly right either. If my PSL4 installer had told me about SL Config, a lot of this might have been done right the first time.

Right now, everything is working as before. Once it warms up again, I'll get all of the equipment on the same app. FWIW, I believe that opening up the polaris valve threw everything out of whack. It has been shut off, and everything evened out again.

Thanks for the help. I learn something every time I come to the forum. :)
 
In general, when the POOL and SPA circuits both have freeze protect enabled, the controller will switch the intake and return valves between pool and spa every 15mins. This typically causes the Spa to drain because the head loss between the two sets of plumbing are not equivalent and there’s a short period of time in which the pump is pulling on the pool and the spa. Usually more water gets drained out of the spa and so its level gets lower with each cycle of the valves.

But it sounds like from your description that the valves did not switch properly and maybe the spa intake stayed open too long and the water in the spa got returned mostly to the pool.

Anyway, you might check that the intake and return valve controllers are moving fully from one direction to the other when you get time to look at it.
 

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JoyfulNoise said:
In general, when the POOL and SPA circuits both have freeze protect enabled, the controller will switch the intake and return valves between pool and spa every 15mins. This typically causes the Spa to drain because the head loss between the two sets of plumbing are not equivalent and there’s a short period of time in which the pump is pulling on the pool and the spa. Usually more water gets drained out of the spa and so its level gets lower with each cycle of the valves.

But it sounds like from your description that the valves did not switch properly and maybe the spa intake stayed open too long and the water in the spa got returned mostly to the pool.

Anyway, you might check that the intake and return valve controllers are moving fully from one direction to the other when you get time to look at it.
Click to expand...
That is pretty close to what happened. After playing around with SL Config a bit, and noticing that the controller kept switching back to spa (roughly every 15 minutes!), I noticed that freeze protect was enabled on spa mode, but not on pool mode. So, I would manually turn on pool mode, and 15 minutes later it would flip to spa mode. I finally turned off freeze protect, and have manually turned on pool and waterfall. Hoping that fixes everything.
 
Seeing that you are from The Woodlands, you may have same issue I had. Pool builders around here add an additional spa return that supplies water from pool to Chlorinate spa. This return is not really needed as most pentair setups have spillway mode.

Anyway, if the additional spa return is open when system is in spa mode, it actually reversed course and water gets sucked out of that one return, draining spa back into pool.

I’d imagine you have a valve to shut that return off.

This actually just happened to me tonight. My valve is automated but apparently in freeze mode, that valve did not turn off and drained 1/3 of my hot tub as well!!!
 
My fix is very simple - disable FREEZE on all circuits. Then create a generic feature circuit that has a low pump speed set to it (just enough to move water) and assign freeze protect to that. That way water keeps flowing in the equipment but there’s none of this back and forth between pool and spa. If you have a separate spa make up line you can open that up if you want but I leave mine closed. I don’t want water dribbling down the spa face and freezing onto the tile. In all my years doing this I have never had an issue with my pool or spa. Then again, our “hard freezes” are typically measures in hours and usually only last overnight. If you get hard freezes during the day in your area, you may want water circulating in the spa as well.
 
That is interesting. My pool is 30 years old, so I am not sure if it has that additional return, but I do have a problem with the spa losing water from time to time. For now, I have disabled freeze protection, and manually run the pool and waterfall. It has been 2 hours, and everything seems to be running smoothly. After flooding my kitchen during last year's freeze, I have a bit of PTSD about these cold snaps. Good luck to you!
 
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Red,

Just a heads up..

Unless you have something scheduled to run 24/7, it will shut off after about 12 hours if manually turned on.

It all depends on the egg-timer settings.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
RedScare said:
That is pretty close to what happened. After playing around with SL Config a bit, and noticing that the controller kept switching back to spa (roughly every 15 minutes!), I noticed that freeze protect was enabled on spa mode, but not on pool mode. So, I would manually turn on pool mode, and 15 minutes later it would flip to spa mode. I finally turned off freeze protect, and have manually turned on pool and waterfall. Hoping that fixes everything.
Click to expand...
I couldn't find a good photo of your return in your media, but if your two valves have an unequal rotation radius you'll get into trouble quick with frequent mode changes like what occur in Freeze Protection. (I.E. if your suction rotates 180° but your return rotates 90°.) This then even amplifies the theft that Matt described.

A solution is "pump off for valve change" but I've only found that option for Valve A & B with the Easytouch systems, which doesn't do us any good here. Intellicenter and Hayward systems will let you set that for Suction/Intake changes and it's great.

Related; you can connect your Intelliflo3 to your Easytouch and keep everything in sync and consolidate your controls. It'll connect to the comm bus (green/yellow) on your board. You'll need a 2 wire cable at least 18G and you'll just pop the back off the pump and wire into the 4 pin connector in the upper left. You'll use the center two pins which is Data+/-. Polarity matters. I can't remember which is green/yellow but I'll find the schematic and upload it here.
 
@RedScare - I ended up setting my actuator valves to where they are split between pool and spa (both returns and drains), set pool pump to run 24/7 and then turned off freeze mode. I woke up with half drained spa this morning. So now with new setup I have constant water being supplied to spa and pool, constant water coming from skimmers and drains, and then water going to wall spitters.

Only thing I can’t figure out is why booster pump runs nonstop in freeze protection mode.
 
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Greetings! Power restored at 8:11 am. I checked the pool equipment, and there appears to be only minimal ice skimming in one pump, no ice in other pump. I covered the entire setup with blankets and tarp last night. I want to crank it up a little later (thawing a pipe in house first). Suggestions on what to look for before turning on the power?

Thanks again to all who were so helpful last night.
 

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