Four "home runs" versus a loop

[SBall]

The guy who is going to do my liner recommended that I have a single loop for all four returns. Go all the way around the pool, with a tee to each return, and a single output from the filter. The exact opposite would seem to be four separate home runs, one for each. In terms of flow, I don't see any benefit one way or the other. The only benefit might be that if there is a leak, finding it may be slightly easier with the four home runs.

Separately, if my wall fittings are all 1.5"...seems like using 2" pipe just to switch to 1.5" at the fitting doesnt make any sense for the home run scenario. Using 2" for the loop, and 1.5" for each tee makes sense, or using 1.5" for four home runs would make sense.

Im leaning towards four, 1.5" home runs, one for each return, and a single 2" from the skimmer to the pump.

 

[SBall]

Tossing back to the top if anybody can help

 

[ajw22]

What size pool and what shape?

Why only 1 skimmer? I like to have 2 so if one gets clogged the pump will not run totally dry.

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

Since it is a return line it matters very little... Most pools do not have individual controls on each return port, so I like the loop idea.

But in the long run, I don't see where it matters all that much..

If it were on the suction side, like two skimmers, I would always recommend home running to the equipment pad with individual valves.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[SBall]

16'x36' rectangle. Yeah, one skimmer. Aside from getting clogged, I can't really talk myself into any other good reason. The pool I grew up with had one skimmer and in 25 years, my parents never had a problem with it, so I just kinda figured one would be fine. I also figured two would be fine, but just went ahead with one for simplicity.

With a loop, it seems like the furthest return could have lower flow than the nearest, just based on pipe resistance and distance. If I go with four dedicated return lines, I can adjust the valves and tinker with it so I get roughly equivalent flow out of each. Thanks for the input though, if consensus is that this is a "6 of one, half a dozen of the other" type question, I will just pick whichever makes sense.

 

[Dirk]

No hydraulics guy, here. Definitely an overkill guy, though! I'd want home runs for everything, unless it was especially cost prohibitive. Balancing all returns would be just one objective. Maybe having one hotter than the others would be good for skimming. Maybe you want to run a floating fountain. Maybe you want to convert one for vacuuming, suction- or pressure-side. Maybe you want to use one or two for aeration to deal with high TA or low pH. Maybe one gets a leak someday, and you'll be able to just turn it off. Etc. All of which would be better accommodated by having a valve for each. Why go 100% when 200% will do, is my motto!

That said, I have one return loop. All three returns flow differently. My pool circulates and skims just fine.

If I was going to reconfigure plumbing (as I recently did), I'd delete the drains (as I recently did). But that's not what you asked about...

 

[ajw22]

I just wonder why you are focused on wanting complex return lines and worry about simplicty in your one skimmer. It is the skimmer(s) doing the work. It doesnt matter much which return the filtered water gets into the pool from. The pool is a very good mixing vessel.

 

[Dirk]

I just wonder why you are focused on wanting complex return lines and worry about simplicty in your one skimmer. It is the skimmer(s) doing the work. It doesnt matter much which return the filtered water gets into the pool from. The pool is a very good mixing vessel.

Depending on the pool shape, and the type of debris landing in the water, the returns--how they flow, and how they point--can play a very important role in how well the skimmers skim. And how well the water circulates...

 

[ajw22]

Depending on the pool shape, and the type of debris landing in the water, the returns--how they flow, and how they point--can play a very important role in how well the skimmers skim. And how well the water circulates...

Water flows to the path of least resistance. I agree return placement is more important to circulation then home run versus loop.

I think the OP is not presenting or thinking about the big picture of circulation in the pool. We have insufficient information to make comments about return and skimmer circulation.

 

[SBall]

Re: Four "home runs" versus a loop

LOL...Dirk, I am right there with you. At times I kinda go overboard, but figure since it is me doing the work...why not?

ajw22, Dirk hit the nail on the head. My skimmer is centrally located on a long wall. I plan to have two returns on the skimmer long wall, each pointed down towards the floor to circulate water downwards, and two returns on the opposite long wall, each pointed directly at the skimmer. That way I get sort of a circular mixing. I am going for simplicity on all accounts. So all I need to decide is if I want all four on a loop or separate. A home run for each is as simple as it gets, just need the valves. But I can see the appeal of a loop as well.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree return placement is more important to circulation then home run versus loop.

This is what I wanted to confirm. I otherwise have it all planned out.

 

[Dirk]

We have insufficient information to make comments about return and skimmer circulation.

I agree. And would remind the OP that I am mostly talking out of my b---.

There is a science to pool hydraulics, that is beyond me. Return placement is probably the most critical thing, I would think. That said, I still think it is safe to claim that there is no specific disadvantage to home runs, and that the same cannot be said for a loop. If there is any disadvantage, it would be that by increasing the amount of pipe and elbows, one would somewhat increase the chance for a leak. But not by much, and that would be negated by the ability to shut off that one return entirely, at the pad (something that cannot be done with a loop). A specific advantage of home runs (beyond the ones I've already suggested), is that you might be able to compensate for misplaced returns by being able to adjust their flow individually. If the OP is willing to pay for and install the extra pipe and valves, then can we come up with any specific reasons that home run is not a good idea?

Would it impact pump head negatively? Water heating? Reliability? Flow? Circulation? What?

Just brainstormin'...

 

[ajw22]

If he installs home runs for each return please label each pipe and valve well for the sake of the next homeowner who will show up here trying to figure out where all those pipes go to and why all the valves.

 

[jblizzle]

I am not sure that the skimmer in the middle of a long wall is the best place.

The ideal place for a skimmer is on the downwind side of the prevailing wind ... wind will trump the return jet flow every time.
Thus, the advantage of having 2 skimmers on opposite ends for whan the winds shift.

 

[ajw22]

If the OP is willing to pay for and install the extra pipe and valves, then can we come up with any specific reasons that home run is not a good idea?

...

Just brainstormin'...

You can argue this either way. 4X the pipes is 4X the opportunities for leaks. But then I have not heard of people with leaks from their inground PVC returns.

If the OP is the type who likes more dials and levers then home run will give him more valves to mess with. Is this a guy thing?

 

[SBall]

You can argue this either way. 4X the pipes is 4X the opportunities for leaks. But then I have not heard of people with leaks from their inground PVC returns.

If the OP is the type who likes more dials and levers then home run will give him more valves to mess with. Is this a guy thing?

I am an engineer...I like to pretend I am "making things better"...LOL

Just for fun, I am going to plumb a 5th "return" line and cap it off just at the edge of my coping so that I can get creative with PVC and make some sort of fun fountain in the future. I had one in my little pool and it was great sometimes to turn on the fountain and listen to the water.

 

[ajw22]

I am an engineer...

Got it. Explains a lot.

 

[jimmythegreek]

best way is 4 returns all home runs. It matters more what kind of pipe ur using. If flex u def want home runs it will leak someday. Remember everybody on here says 2" pipe and they repeat what they hear posted on here. YES 2" pipe is great esp for the suction side it helps if your skimmer is 2"fittings as well. On the return side for a standard pool 1.5" to each return is plenty, remember the size of the opening for the eyeball is 3/4 or 1"max as a standard, just do like I just did and run 4 1.5" return home runs, pipe them to jandy neverlubes and make a 2"manifold and run that back to ur filter or heater. If you ever have a leak with a loop u are screwed thats the big problem

 

[Dirk]

best way is 4 returns all home runs. It matters more what kind of pipe ur using. If flex u def want home runs it will leak someday. Remember everybody on here says 2" pipe and they repeat what they hear posted on here. YES 2" pipe is great esp for the suction side it helps if your skimmer is 2"fittings as well. On the return side for a standard pool 1.5" to each return is plenty, remember the size of the opening for the eyeball is 3/4 or 1"max as a standard, just do like I just did and run 4 1.5" return home runs, pipe them to jandy neverlubes and make a 2"manifold and run that back to ur filter or heater. If you ever have a leak with a loop u are screwed thats the big problem

If I had it to do again, that's exactly what I'd want...

I'm not sure what the flex vs non-flex is all about. I've read some stuff both ways. Flex seems like less elbows, which make sense to me. Maybe there's some other downside? But if you go standard PVC, then I'd recommend sweep 90s (sch 40 only). That too, seems to have some controversy, whether you gain much flow or not, but I believe they do flow better so why not use them? They certainly don't flow less, that's for sure (though they are more expensive). More things to consider, I suppose.

I also like the idea of running extra pipe before backfilling and decking is installed. I always overbuild. I rarely need to. But a few times it's paid off, so why not (unless cost is a factor). Once the dirt/concrete/deck/etc is in place, then you're done, no options...