First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

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Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Hi all!

Thank you so much for all these tips, just amazing the support at this crucial phase!!! I think I have incorporated most of them in the red-line below. I also tried to improve the warranty situation and pool start up liability and added some points I found from other pool quotes. Does this look better now?

Pool-Spa Contract - redacted.pdf - Google Диск

A few things where I'm not sure how important they are is the nickel heater for the SWG and the increase in plumbing for the Spa. Any thoughts on those?


@kimkats a few questions regarding your list:
- Drains: for the SPA I asked about the nice 360 flush drains. Curious to see what he says.
- Equipment Models? I have added a few descriptions or would you go even so far to select the part numbers like 520545 EasyTouch 8SC-IC40?
- Vacuum: I asked to leave the pool robot out since we will most likely purchase one separately (e.g. Dolphin Nautilus or Premiere online)
- Sand: not too worried since our builder is doing the landscaping afterwards anyways
- Valves: What should I specify without micromanaging the exact brand and model? any generic description?
- Unions: not sure what this is?
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Going through the new contract:

-returns (6)-have them plumbed in sets of 2. This gives you full control of them. If you have all 6 on one valve/line the furthest ones could have less flow that the closer ones.

-sprinklers should be on their own line and valve

-you can and should have both main drains the channel ones-no tripping hazard in the pool and looks awesome in both

-over flow-option to close it-not heard of this but could be a good idea. They could put a "box" like used in yard systems with the valve inside it. You will just have to make sure to check it everyone in a while (first Saturday of the month?) to make sure there is not build up of dirt or stuff growing in it.

Valves-You can say no ball valves. There are two main brands I know of for the good ones-Jandy and Pentair- Try this "Dear PB, what brand of valves do you use in your builds?" See what he says and go from there.

-unions- https://www.amazon.com/WU-0750-S-4-Inch-Schedule-Union-White/dp/B000H601OC/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1522061832&sr=8-10&keywords=union+pvc These allows you to remove any equipment to clean, repair, or replace as needed. These should be used on anything that might need to be removed such as the filter, pump, SWG, etc. This saves you from having to do any pipe cutting.

That contract looks solid. Has your PB seen it yet?

Kim:kim:
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

If it’s not in the contract it doesn’t exist! They can then give you whatever they fancy that meets the terms of the contract. Don’t worry about being too fussy. It’s your job! As for valves... my plumber is coming tomorrow and I’m going to ask that he installs Jandy Neverlube valves if he has them handy. I’ll likely have to pay a small variation as it wasn’t in my contract. I was here before signing but didn’t think to specify valves. It all adds up, so why not have it included to start with if you can?
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

I just talked with the pool builder and he agreed to almost all the contract changes. He said most of what I asked for is standard anyway, he just doesn't get that detailed in his contract.

The few things that would cost extra:

Pressure Plumbing: He said he has all 6 in series right now and that he controls pressure with the valve inside the pool. He said he can provide 2 each with valves to control flow at the equipment pad as Kim suggested but there would be a plumbing up-charge and he thought it wasn't worth the cost for a pool our size. I will ask him to provide that as a price option that we can execute after we sign the contract.

Nickel heater: he said it is not included. He gave me the same answer I saw on this forum a few times: That it is not needed if I maintain water chemistry properly, but that it can act as insurance if for instance we go on vacation and the person taking care of our pool is messing up badly. He said around $500 more. Worth it?

I forgot to ask him about the valves: For the Valves can I simply specify "Jandy or Pentair Valves" is that good enough? I believe most of our valves are tied in to the EasyTouch automation anyway with the SPA and Aerator Sprinklers, so I assume those will have to come from Pentair or Jandy anyway to work with the Easytouch?
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

See comments below...

rhawke said:
I just talked with the pool builder and he agreed to almost all the contract changes. He said most of what I asked for is standard anyway, he just doesn't get that detailed in his contract.

The few things that would cost extra:

Pressure Plumbing: He said he has all 6 in series right now and that he controls pressure with the valve inside the pool. He said he can provide 2 each with valves to control flow at the equipment pad as Kim suggested but there would be a plumbing up-charge and he thought it wasn't worth the cost for a pool our size. I will ask him to provide that as a price option that we can execute after we sign the contract.

Nickel heater: he said it is not included. He gave me the same answer I saw on this forum a few times: That it is not needed if I maintain water chemistry properly, but that it can act as insurance if for instance we go on vacation and the person taking care of our pool is messing up badly. He said around $500 more. Worth it? That's what I've read here also, not really worth the extra money.


I forgot to ask him about the valves: For the Valves can I simply specify "Jandy or Pentair Valves" is that good enough? I believe most of our valves are tied in to the EasyTouch automation anyway with the SPA and Aerator Sprinklers, so I assume those will have to come from Pentair or Jandy anyway to work with the Easytouch? Assuming when building a pool is worse than normal assuming. You are likely correct but get the valves specified. Jandy's are called Never Lube while Pentair's don't really have a name but they look similar to the Never Lube's
Click to expand...
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

great thanks!

I added "valves to be Pentair or Jandy - no ball valves to be installed"

Curious to see what the upcharge for the separate pressure lines is.

Looks like we are set on everything else. The PB told me he already has the excavation tentatively scheduled for 2 weeks from today. :)
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

I meant the regular pool return lines separated in 2s instead of all 6 in series. The builders here call them the "pressure lines" vs the "suction lines". I actually like that wording better because "return" to me as somebody who is more familiar with HVAC is the path back to the equipment where as in pool lingo it is the path from the equipment to the pool. With pressure and suction there is no confusion for me :D

But yes, we are also adding a dedicated plumbing line for a future Polaris 280, just in case we don't like the robot for whatever reason.
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

rhawke said:
Pressure Plumbing: He said he has all 6 in series right now and that he controls pressure with the valve inside the pool. He said he can provide 2 each with valves to control flow at the equipment pad as Kim suggested but there would be a plumbing up-charge and he thought it wasn't worth the cost for a pool our size. I will ask him to provide that as a price option that we can execute after we sign the contract.
Click to expand...

When you say "pressure plumbing" you are talking about the plumbing to the returns correct? I am a "control freak" in that I like to control as much of my world as I can.

When he says "control with a valve inside the pool"...........what valve inside the pool? Lets dial this one in a little tighter and make sure we are talking about the same thing. He might be talking about the "eyeballs" aka returns. Some can be opened and shut as needed.

So happy to hear he includes most of the stuff BUT did you get it in writing??? You would not (or maybe you would) how many times a PB *forgets" what he said so................upcharge :(

Kim:kim:
 

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Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

I would do a suction side cleaner with a dedicated vacuum port before ever considering a pressure cleaner. A dedicated vacuum port can be used with a manual vacuum head all the time whereas a dedicated pressure port is useless without a pressure cleaner.

Pressure cleaners also typically require booster pumps which are energy hogs. I consider pressure cleaners to be the least attractive cleaning option.
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Thanks Matt.

Right now all we are having put in is a pipe between equipment pad and wall side of the pool. I don't think it will be connected to anything on the equipment pad. Could that be used also for a suction cleaner or vacuum if we hook that same pipe up on the suction side on the pad?
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Suction cleaner lines need to be about 1-1/2” PVC minimum. Pressure cleaner lines are typically 3/4” to 1”. You can check with your PB to see what his plan is.
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Thanks. So there is no way to remain flexible then without putting in two separate lines it sounds like, because the 1.5" would not work with the Polaris? The builder has one line included so I'm sure we can choose either but I don't want to pay for even a second extra plumbing line that we may never use. I did not have one pool builder talk about suction side cleaners. They all said either robot or Polaris 280. Do you have an idea why nobody recommends them?
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Probably personal preference and they can sell you another pump (booster pump) if the put in a pressure cleaner.

Suction cleaners work very well in my opinion with minimal adjustments needed (just dial in the suction flow rate once and it’s set). I ran a suction side Kreepy Krawly cleaner in my pool for 4 years before going with a robot. While my robot beats the pants off of it in terms of cleanliness and electrical usage, the suction cleaner was pretty much bullet proof for 4 years - just throw it in and away it goes. No fiddling with floats or backup valve adjustment, etc., etc. In the years I owned it, the only repair it ever need was a new set of bottom rubber flaps that I think cost me like $20.

Like I said, if your robot ever failed and needed repair, you can always hook up a manual pole vacuum to the suction port and clean the pool yourself while you wait for a robot repair. You can’t do anything useful with a pressure line unless there’s a $400 cleaner hooked up to it.
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

kimkats said:
When you say "pressure plumbing" you are talking about the plumbing to the returns correct? I am a "control freak" in that I like to control as much of my world as I can.

When he says "control with a valve inside the pool"...........what valve inside the pool? Lets dial this one in a little tighter and make sure we are talking about the same thing. He might be talking about the "eyeballs" aka returns. Some can be opened and shut as needed.

So happy to hear he includes most of the stuff BUT did you get it in writing??? You would not (or maybe you would) how many times a PB *forgets" what he said so................upcharge :(
Click to expand...

Yes he did say using the eyeballs, sorry I used the wrong word.

Yes I did get everything in writing :) I made the redline to the contract and specified it and he copy pasted all my stuff. The below is now in the contract:
2 ½” suction, 2” pressure, Spa 3” suction, 2.5” pressure PVC Schedule 40 on pool piping and Schedule 80 for pump connections, all valves to be Pentair or Jandy – no ball valves to be installed, union fittings for all pool equipment for easy replacement in the future
Click to expand...

He also just gave me a price for the extra return plumbing. He said it is $300 per extra return line with a control valve. Therefore, it would cost $300 more to do 3 + 3 instead of 6 in series or $600 more to do 2 + 2 + 2 instead of 6 in series. Does this make a difference in head pressure / pump efficiency? The aerator sprinklers are already on a separate valve with actuator for the EasyTouch control.
Is this worth the cost for our almost rectangular 14,000 gallon pool?
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

If the returns can be fine tuned at the retuns you should be fine. To be on the safe side can you ask him what returns he uses. We can all learn from your build and maybe help others save some money with those reruns!
Kim:kim:
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

6 returns is quite a lot. Most pools have 3, maybe 4 returns at most. If you split the flow up by 6, you may not get the circulation you like since the water exiting the return will feel weak. I don’t think there’s an ideal number but the more returns you have, the more energy your pump will use so, at some point, the law of diminishing returns comes in....

Maybe one of our hydraulics experts can better comment on that.
 
Re: First Time Pool Owner (Houston Pool Build)

Thanks Matt. I will ask the pool builder about that. I'm sure going with less returns won't be an issue for him if that is what I suggest. Some of the other builders had even recommended 7 or 8 for the same size pool. Not sure how they determine this.

I will get a copy of the pool plans that should have all the plumbing details on it, and I will post them here.
 

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