First results. First steps.

[aeh0603]

No dilution is needed to do what you are trying to do. If you have a way to measure out a 5ml sample of pool water, just use that (without dilution), add one scoop of powder, and each drop is 1 FC. You loose some accuracy, but it's good enough for most of the slam. Just go back to a 10ml sample for the OCLT when you get there.

As others mentioned above city tap water usually contains FC and could also contain CC, so if you have testing this way for a while it is likely skewing your results.

 

[BS_LM]

@frogabog

Above is from a 2018 document from our city regarding water quality. The detected range of total chlorine seems too low to account for the CC numbers we have been seeing.

@frogabog and @aeh0603 I appreciate your thoughts about the dilution solution. I thought about the chlorine level moments too late after we started the reagent comparison and decided to go ahead, as I was most interested in seeing how they stood up to one another. I do think saving on reagents via dilution is worthwhile(when shooting for FC of 30+), but would use aeh0603’s suggetion(though would there be too much of the powder with a full scoop in only 5 cc of pool water?) OR obtain distilled water to dilute.

Finally, the latest update. Yesterday’s numbers:
Morning
pH-7.1
FC-2.0
CC-1.5
8 gallons 12.5% chlorine added.
Evening
FC-2.0
CC-1.5

Yesterday evening, nothing added but rainwater via brief downpour last night. Though SWG going.
This morning
pH-7.2
FC-1
CC-1

Pool has been crystal clear for the past 4-5 days(since about one day after we attempted SLAM). It smells fine. The water feels fine.
-Bryan

 

[BS_LM]

Pics from this morning...the pool sure doesn’t look like a swamp. I cannot comprehend where all the Chlorine is going! We have added 50+ gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine after 7 bottles of 10% and several cups of dichlor(no frogabog no dichlor added since your caution)-all over about 8-9 days.
-Bryan

 

[Texas Splash]

My first visit on your thread. Very odd behavior for that CC. I saw your CC test procedure reply, so it sounds as if you're doing it correctly. But two things that I figured I'd toss out there were:
1 - Just to beat a dead horse, the yellow cap reagent being done for the CC test is indeed the R-0003 and not the R-0600? We've seen many others make similar mistakes.
2 - As other have said, it makes no sense for CYA to remain so high and intact with that elevated CC, so ammonia would appear to be eliminated. However, I did notice that just about each time you post a new FC/CC result, a fair amount of time may have passed - say an hour or more. Since you can't exchange water right now, have you ever tried .... for experimental sake ...... increasing the FC to 35 (based on that CYA of 90). Or 31 if you prefer based off of a CYA of 80. But you get the point - make sure it gets up there. Use PoolMath to dose the water that high, then wait no longer than 10 minutes and test again. Whatever it dropped, increase by that amount to get back to 31/35 right away. Do this repeatedly for an hour or so so that you can get 5-6 tests under your belt. See if that breaks the cycle of whatever is feeding off of your FC and increasing that CC. At this point, it may be worth a shot.

 

[Texas Splash]

Here is my thought: The 10-min test is usually applied to pools with ammonia, but the CYA would be at zero and the FC at 10. Here you have water that appears to not meet ammonia criteria, but you have a high CYA level that may be interfering with the chlorination process to eliminate whatever is generating the CCs, so the FC must be much higher. So the FC must be increased to that 31-35 range to be at SLAM level. Anything less and you're just feeding the beast (whatever is eating the chlorine). Increasing the FC and keeping it there is critical with an elevated CYA. Assuming everything else is being done correctly, the clear water can be misleading in this case.

 

[BS_LM]

@Texas Splash Thank you for your thoughts/advice. We have been using pool math for our calculations, assuming CYA of 80, to obtain the suggested amount of chlorine. Unfortunately, this has produced a FC level no where near 30(our goal has been 33) and despite testing sometimes as soon as 30 minutes after adding the chlorine. I will likely take your suggestion and attempt retesting the FC/CC 10ish minutes after the next serious SLAM attempt, but this may not occur now until next Sunday, as we have a pool party tomorrow and then the work week and plans next Saturday.

As to the reagent used, we have been using the R-0003 that was snuggled in the chlorine only container writhin the TF-100 kit.
-Bryan

 

[BS_LM]

Sunday pool party was a success! Yesterday was spent SLAMMING all day. The salt level flexed between 3700 - 4500, much higher levels than before SLAMMING. Results as follows for each test:

1st Morning test: (10 ml) Pool water clear.
FC 0.5
CC 2.0
pH 7.5
Added 9 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

2nd test: (5ml) Pool water clear.
FC 7.0
CC 5.5
Added 7 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

3rd test: (5ml) Pool water now cloudy. Looks like "salt" particles throughout.
FC 17.0
CC 5.0
Added 5 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

4th test: (5ml) Pool water still cloudy. Looks like "salt" particles throughout.
FC 28.0
CC 3.0
Added 2 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

5th test: (5ml) Pool water getting cloudier. Looks like "salt" throughout the pool, causing it to be quite hazy.
FC 27.0
CC 2.0
pH 7.8
Added 2.3 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

6th test: (10 ml) Testing water turned from bright pink to a light tan color when reaching FC of 18....never turned clear. Pool water cloudy. Looks like "salt" particles causing cloudiness.
FC 18.0
CC 1.5
Added 2 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

7th test: (5 ml) Testing water turned from a bright pink to a light tan color when reaching FC of 33....never turned clear. Pool water cloudy.
FC 33.0
CC 1.0
Added 5.3 gallons of Liquid Chlorine

This Morning: (10 ml) Pool water slightly cloudy, but much better than last night. Testing water turned from a bright pink to a light tan color when reaching FC of 37....never turned clear. No visible “salt.” Salt level is 3900.
FC 37.0 (Target was 33.0)
CC 0.5
pH 7.8

I'm not sure why we are getting a light tan colored water that will not turn clear when testing chlorine, now with high salt levels, and whitish cloudy water. I just closed the autocover, as there's a storm on the way. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks. -Lori



.

 

[BS_LM]

Quick update to my last post.....5 hours have past since morning testing. Autocover is now open again (heavy rain today, so I had to keep it closed) It is now sunny. Water is much clearer than this morning. I was able to achieve a clear solution when FC testing.

FC 33.0
CC 0.0
Salt level is 4100

-Lori

 

[TurbineTester]

I just thought I would chime in here and comment that the amount of chlorine you have put in your pool seems absolutely mind boggling. I had an absolute septic tank of a neglected pool 2.5 weeks ago and my pool still looks worse than yours, but my pool hasn't even consumed 1/2 of the chlorine you have purchased. If I'm reading correctly, you have put over 50 GALLONS of 12.5% LC in your pool , over 33 gallons on the day you SLAM all day and it only exceeded the SLAM target by 4 ppm? How could a clear pool possibly eat that much chlorine? My green pool, picture attached, will hold the FC for 8-10 hours at or above the SLAM level If I just overshoot by about 5-10 ppm. I'm trying to figure out if your experience is the outlier or if it's mine???

 

[BS_LM]

@TurbineTester From my review of a number of related threads, and from comments from the pros here, I’m afraid that our experience, not yours, is the outlier.

 

[BS_LM]

Continuing the SLAM saga, this evening about 3 hours after the last results(above), retesting revealed the following:

FC: 5
CC: 0.5

The tested water sample, after “clearing” with R-087 reagent, was again tan, but minimally so(not as dark as the pic above).
I added 8 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine and 1/2 hour later the result:

FC: 30
CC: 0.5

This time when the R-087 was added, the tested water was again a darker tan color, as in the picture above. I am adding the information about the color of the tested water hoping that it might be a clue as to what may be in our water that is hungrily consuming chlorine.

Thanks to @Texas Splash for the advice about very frequent testing(though we have not come close to 10 minute turnaround), as we have made progress<crosses fingers> with the CC.
-Bryan

 

[kimkats]

Very happy to hear the party was a success! Now to see what it what with that water and CC. When did you last clean your filter? How far from the pool is your equipment? I have an idea in my head that I need more time to think through but the answers will help me dial it all in.

@OTPirate @ajw22 ANY ideas about the tan color on the FC test??

Kim

 

[ajw22]

Why are you closing the cover during rains? You have some type of chemical stew in your pool water. Rain is the cleanest source for fresh water. If your water level gets high then drain it down and make room for fresh water. Leave your cover open 24/7 and let your pool breath. At this time I don’t see what your having your cover closed is buying you.

 

[Texas Splash]

^^ I agree. Leave the cover off. Not only for the fresh water, but with all that chlorine there's no need to have it oxidizing-up against the cover. Rain won't hurt the SLAM Process. Glad to see you broke the CC barrier. There was definately something odd in that water. Last I recall your CYA was in the 80-90 range and you decided to leave it that way for now, but if you elect to take advantage of the rain and exchange some water, make sure to re-validate your CYA and adjust the FC as required. Try to stay consistant now.

As for the tan color of your sample during the FAS_DPD testing, maybe @JoyfulNoise will have a thought.

 

[BS_LM]

@ajw22 Midwest storms typically come with high winds, and as our pool is surrounded on three sides by trees, we are trying to prevent an inordinate amount of organic matter, possibly including branches, from entering the pool. We have seen the light after spending one week plus on this site, and will let our pool see the light of the sun much more often(though, perhaps not as much as you might feel is best, as in the last few days we have, unfortunately, participated in the death of dozens of pollinators, found floating in the skimmer(as well as at least 3 frogs).
-Bryan

 

[BS_LM]

@kimkats and @Texas Splash Thanks for the advice and for inviting in those whom you expect to be authorities on the chemicals/chemistry.

As to the last filter clean, this last was done 1 1/2 weeks ago and, since then, the PSI has increased about 10%, possibly in response to the clearing of the white cloudiness reported in recent SLAM notes. Before this, the PSI had remained stable for the past week post cleaning.

The equipment is about 15-20 feet from the pool, situated just off of one corner of the pool.
-Bryan

 

[ajw22]

@ajw22 Midwest storms typically come with high winds, and as our pool is surrounded on three sides by trees, we are trying to prevent an inordinate amount of organic matter, possibly including branches, from entering the pool. We have seen the light after spending one week plus on this site, and will let our pool see the light of the sun much more often(though, perhaps not as much as you might feel is best, as in the last few days we have, unfortunately, participated in the death of dozens of pollinators, found floating in the skimmer(as well as at least 3 frogs).
-Bryan

My skimmer gets full of leaves after many storms. Normal chlorine levels takes care of organic materials you get after a storm if you clean it out promptly. Keeping your cover open and getting rain water will do more for your pool then any storm organics will hurt it.

We do get storms with high winds in Nj also.

 

[OTPirate]

@OTPirate @ajw22 ANY ideas about the tan color on the FC test??

It's more of an orange color due to the high FC. You can try the extended fas-dpd directions using 25 ml, but, man, I bet you are burning through reagents.

 

[BS_LM]

Yesterday's test results:

10:30 AM:
pH 7.9
FC 24
CC 0
CH 1000+ (I added 50 drops and stopped when not achieving any change in color at all)
TA 300
CYA 85
Salt 4200
Added 2 1/2 gallons of 12.5% LC

2:00 PM:
FC 23
CC 0
Added 3 gallons of 12.5% LC

4:00 PM:
FC 15
CC 0.5
Added 5 1/2 gallons of 12.5% LC

6:00 PM:
FC 29
CC 0.5

This Morning's Test 9:00 AM:
pH 7.8
FC 30
CC 0.5
Salt 4900
Water smells of chlorine (and so do my hands). It is sparkling clear.

 

[ajw22]

Everything in your water is high - CYA, CH, Salt. You should do a significant water exchange.