First house, first pool, and a couple questions

[hyrax]

Hi guys and gals!

First off, I want to say thank you for the wealth of information here. This site has made me much more confident that I can maintain my pool myself and on a relatively tight budget. Thus far I've picked up the TF-100 and have been using that to get everything balanced. I also subscribed to the Pool Math app which has been pretty helpful. My pool has a spa attached, and that is where my first questions to you all come in.

The pressure coming from my return jets in the spa is very low. I have to turn my pump up to 2850 rpm to even get a tiny bit of water flowing through them, close to maximum on my pump (kinda defeats the power savings of a variable speed). I think the problem here is twofold. First, the jandy valve is installed improperly, as I can't turn it to shut off the pool. It'll only turn to shut off the water coming out of the heater (bad) or the spa. Seems I should be able to take it apart and rotate that, right? The way it is set up now I can't run the heater to just the spa, and the valve is likely blocking the flow from going evenly into both return lines. See pictures attached if it helps (sorry, the only picture I have of the pool!).

The second part of this is that the return line to the spa has a much higher section just off the junction I'm talking about above which I'm sure is causing water to not flow evenly to both pool/spa as it would need a lot more pressure to get up that additional foot or so. That spa line has a backflow valve on it, so I don't see the point in this. Crappy thing is - before I had any knowledge about pools I had a pool inspector AND a pool tech come out and no one pointed these things out to me.

If my hunch is right and I can lower that spa return line to even with the pool line, I'm hoping there's some sort of basic guide someone can link me to with the parts and tools needed to cut it apart and put it back together. I'm fairly handy but young/inexperienced with home maintenance don't even know what the pipes are made out of . I do like to try, though!

I have a few more questions but I'll leave it at that one for now since it's getting late, and start asking those in the comments after the part 1 is resolved, haha.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!

The valve in question appears to be a three way valve. The last picture should be all the flow going to the spa.

Your other issue, the one foot rise of the line to the spa is not significant. And the check valve is needed so that the spa does not drain to the pool level each time the pump is turned off.

Ponder that and let us know if other questions arise.

 

[ajw22]

The labels on the connections to the valve are labeled SPA, POOL, POOL RETURN. That makes no sense. Which is the connection to valve inlet and the heater output?

Please post a pic zoomed out of the equipment around that valve.

If your heater is the line on the right marked POOL RETURN then the valve is installed properly.

Usually the inlet is the center of the T and the outlets are to the left and right. Manual is here -> https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0500300.pdf

You never want the inlet blocked. Depending which is the inlet the valve cover may have been installed 90 degrees off. Have to see more to know how if it was deliberate. There are the handle stops so you can rotate the diverter 180 degrees to close the left or right outlets.

Look at where INLET on your valve is marked versus pic below.

 

[hyrax]

Yes the labeling makes no sense whics is part of why I was struggling so much to understand this setup when I first got it.

The one labeled "pool" is the inlet from the heater. Here's the other pictures I had intended to attach also, had a size limit and I had to wait for mods to approve the post.

Pictures: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

I can take more later today if need be.

 

[ajw22]

Yes the labeling makes no sense whics is part of why I was struggling so much to understand this setup when I first got it.

The one labeled "pool" is the inlet from the heater. Here's the other pictures I had intended to attach also, had a size limit and I had to wait for mods to approve the post.

If POOL is the heater inlet then remove the 8 screws and rotate the cover to align the INLET label with the actual inlet. Then you will be able to close the outlets to the left or right.

Your pics don’t let me see the POOL line going back to the heater so i trust you are correct.

 

[hyrax]

Your pics don’t let me see the POOL line going back to the heater so i trust you are correct.

Alright good to know thank you. I'll take more pictures when it's light out but they actually ran the lines underground so I'm not sure it'd be much help anyway. The one labeled "pool" is definitely coming from the heater.

Do you think it is worth while to remove the raised section to the spa to even it out? The pump has to run way too hard to get any flow there currently. Not sure how much it'd help.

 

[ajw22]

Do you think it is worth while to remove the raised section to the spa to even it out? The pump has to run way too hard to get any flow there currently. Not sure how much it'd help.

No. A pool pump can lift water much more than that easily. The rise is not your problem. Look elsewhere.

Fix your valve. It is blocking flow to the spa. See how things are after the valve diverter is in the proper place.

 

[PoolGate]

You can move that valve to any position without taking it apart. I see you already have the thumb screw off. Just lift the handle slightly and you'll be able to pass over the stops and position it wherever you want. Make sure not to block off all of the return water (the inlet). Are there any other returns than those 2?

 

[hyrax]

No. A pool pump can lift water much more than that easily. The rise is not your problem. Look elsewhere.

Fix your valve. It is blocking flow to the spa. See how things are after the valve diverter is in the proper place.

Alright! Jandy valve first. My thought on that was that it DOES have the power to do it, but only once the RPM is high. Because that rise is right at the split maybe it's causing all of it to get diverted when trying to run the pump at a low RPM (which would be nice to save energy).

You can move that valve to any position without taking it apart. I see you already have the thumb screw off. Just lift the handle slightly and you'll be able to pass over the stops and position it wherever you want. Make sure not to block off all of the return water (the inlet). Are there any other returns than those 2?

Hah now that you mention it, yeah that thumb screw is gone but that wasn't me! Looks like this handle only fits on in the one direction it's facing though. I'll have to pull the cover off.

Yes those are the two return lines. It breaks up from there to 4 spa returns and 3 pool.

 

[PoolGate]

Alright! Jandy valve first. My thought on that was that it DOES have the power to do it, but only once the RPM is high. Because that rise is right at the split maybe it's causing all of it to get diverted when trying to run the pump at a low RPM (which would be nice to save energy).



Hah now that you mention it, yeah that thumb screw is gone but that wasn't me! Looks like this handle only fits on in the one direction it's facing though. I'll have to pull the cover off.

Yes those are the two return lines. It breaks up from there to 4 spa returns and 3 pool.

No what I am saying is you can lift it slightly to allow it to pass over the limit stops. The valve will rotate 360 degrees without the stops you just need to lift the handle so it doesn't make contact with them. I would not take apart an old valve unless you have a rebuild kit or you risk having a leak.

 

[ajw22]

No what I am saying is you can lift it slightly to allow it to pass over the limit stops. The valve will rotate 360 degrees without the stops you just need to lift the handle so it doesn't make contact with them. I would not take apart an old valve unless you have a rebuild kit or you risk having a leak.

Let the OP get a rebuild kit and open the valve. With his flow problems I would like to get a look inside the funky installed valve.

 

[hyrax]

No what I am saying is you can lift it slightly to allow it to pass over the limit stops. The valve will rotate 360 degrees without the stops you just need to lift the handle so it doesn't make contact with them. I would not take apart an old valve unless you have a rebuild kit or you risk having a leak.

Well would you look at that, I've got water running into the spa finally! Thanks for the workaround for now.

Let the OP get a rebuild kit and open the valve. With his flow problems I would like to get a look inside the funky installed valve.

I'll get a rebuild kit and fix it anyway in the near future, but I'm glad to have some circulation happening.

Here's some more pics: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

The second image in this album is how I'd picture this should work if everything was equal. The final picture is where I ended up setting it. Restricting the return to the pool a bit allowed enough pressure to get water flowing about evenly into the pool and spa at a lower RPM (1600 for now).

 

[ajw22]

Glad you got it figured out. Now properly label the lines with words and arrows for future owners.

 

[hyrax]

Glad you got it figured out. Now properly label the lines with words and arrows for future owners.

Definitely will. Thanks for the help! Guess I'll roll into the next question.

Should I be worried about bubbles coming out of some of the pool returns? In particular, one of them consistently has bubbles.

Perhaps related, the water drains away from my pump when it's off so it sucks air for probably 45 seconds before priming, then blasts all that air out through the returns. Even after running for a couple hours though, the return by my stairs is still pushing out bubbles.

Edit: Oh, and the seal for my pump basket seems fine. I just cleaned it and it seems in good shape.

 

[ajw22]

Should I be worried about bubbles coming out of some of the pool returns? In particular, one of them consistently has bubbles.

Perhaps related, the water drains away from my pump when it's off so it sucks air for probably 45 seconds before priming, then blasts all that air out through the returns. Even after running for a couple hours though, the return by my stairs is still pushing out bubbles.

Edit: Oh, and the seal for my pump basket seems fine. I just cleaned it and it seems in good shape.

You have not posted pics of your full equipment but I get the sense you have old plumbing. There is probably a leak somewhere sucking air in.

I am fairly relaxed about those types of problems that are hard to find and don't impact the operation yet. I keep an eye out for the root cause and maybe stumble across it. Or maybe it stays small. Or at some point it grows to become obvious.

 

[hyrax]

You have not posted pics of your full equipment but I get the sense you have old plumbing. There is probably a leak somewhere sucking air in.

I am fairly relaxed about those types of problems that are hard to find and don't impact the operation yet. I keep an eye out for the root cause and maybe stumble across it. Or maybe it stays small. Or at some point it grows to become obvious.

Yeah, the previous owner didn't take the greatest care of everything either. What should I look out for? I did notice there was a small leak coming from the chlorinator, however, I've since shut that off (there is a picture of that, at least). When it gets bad I'll notice, huh? haha

Until my TF-100 kit made it to me I was using test strips and I think I allowed my pH to get too high (strips said it was pretty low so I kept adding borax). I've been noticing some green algae growing on the walls of my pool (which I've scrubbed off twice with a brush now). Anytime I see algae like that, does it mean I need to shock the pool?

I'll get an up to date log soon, but this is from my most recent one:

FC: 6
pH: 7.6
TA: 90
CH: 150
CYA: 45
BOR: 15

I'm going to work on getting the CH up when that gets here, and borates too at some point. Last time I tested CC it was .5 but I think I need to test again since the algae and a bit of cloudiness happened after that.

 

[DeanP66]

If you've got algae, you need to perform a SLAM. Unlike shocking your pool, it is not a one time event. It is a process of bringing FC up to a shock level (based on your CYA) with liquid chlorine and keeping it there by testing FC often and redosing back to that shock level several times a day. The more times a day you can do it, the faster the SLAM will go. You are done with the SLAM when you pass 3 criteria. They are:

1) pool is crystal clear
2) you pass an OCLT (overnight chlorine loss test)
3) your CC's are .5 or less

 

[PoolGate]

You should never see any algae at all. Not a spot. Ever. If you do, you need to do a SLAM until the 3 exit criteria are met.

 

[ajw22]

What should I look out for? I did notice there was a small leak coming from the chlorinator, however, I've since shut that off (there is a picture of that, at least). When it gets bad I'll notice, huh? haha

I am not sure how your chlorinator works but if it has a leak it could be drawing air in even if you have it turned off. Worn O rings, seals and gaskets around covers and valves and equipment are likely areas to suck air in from.

If you have an area you suspect may be sucking air in from take some saran warp and put it around the area and see if it gets sucked in tight and the bubbles stop.

Until my TF-100 kit made it to me I was using test strips and I think I allowed my pH to get too high (strips said it was pretty low so I kept adding borax). I've been noticing some green algae growing on the walls of my pool (which I've scrubbed off twice with a brush now). Anytime I see algae like that, does it mean I need to shock the pool?

I'll get an up to date log soon, but this is from my most recent one:

FC: 6
pH: 7.6
TA: 90
CH: 150
CYA: 45
BOR: 15

I'm going to work on getting the CH up when that gets here, and borates too at some point. Last time I tested CC it was .5 but I think I need to test again since the algae and a bit of cloudiness happened after that.

Forget the concept of shock. Follow this protocol - Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

Once you get your pool algae free then maintain your FC above the target level for your CYA Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart and you should be algae free forever.

 

[hyrax]

Awesome thanks for all the tips guys. I will pick up some more liquid chlorine tonight and get on that. Do I still need to brush the walls off on a semi-regular basis?

I read that running your pump for 12 hours a day is probably overkill. Is there some sort of calculation I can do that'll tell me about how much I need to run it based on volume and flow rate?

I'm already excited about the prospect of a SWG, lol.