**Update-Construction Photos Added** Soon-to-be New Build in SE Pennsylvania (Pics Included)

[Mdz110]

First-time post here! I've been browsing the forums for the past few months as I've been working through some design decisions...tanning ledge size, to automate, or not to automate, decking options, liner photos... so many choices to make! The forum has been a great resource and I'm close to signing off on our final design & quote which I'll share the details of below. A little background - our house is 6 yrs old, backs up to the woods, and we have some site constraints to work around. There's a slope in the rear corner that rises about 6 ft from our low point to high point where the shed sits, and we have a 12 ft side-yard setback that dictated the pool shape as well as our desire to work around our existing patio/fire pit setup. I'm an architect, so I had all the site CAD files from our construction so I used those to do the initial layout, but since I'm certainly no pool expert I traded files back and forth with our building until we settled on plan.

Here's a couple of photos of what we're starting with. The PB did an initial stake-out and survey of the grades and then we went back and forth and I stretched some of the dimensions so I've re-sprayed it which is why some of the lines are a little wobbly.




And here's what the new pool and decking will look like in plan view. Everything colored is new, and monochrome is existing.


And lastly, but most important here's the pool and equipment specs that are included in the base package:
17'x38' Mountain Lake (modified somewhat)
589sf (approx. 15,500 gallons by my math)
Polymer wall (Matrix) w/ Vinyl liner
Excavation & Machine Finish Grading
French Drain around entire perimeter with 4" PVC pipe to daylight
(2) 10" main drains (200GPM capacity) in 3" PVC
(2) separately piped skimmers in 2" Sch 40 PVC
(4) returns spaced around pool
Pentair System 3 Mod Media Cartridge Filter (300 Sq Ft)
Pentair Prowler 920 Robotic Cleaner
5x10 Concrete Equipment Pad
(3) Pentair GloBrite Lights & IntelliBrite Controller
100A Pool Panel & 50A 240v circuit to Filter Pad
GFI receptacle at Filter Pad
GFI receptacle at Pool for misc use
42" Sponge-Finish Cantilever Concrete Coping around entire perimeter
20mil vinyl liner (GLI)
Solar Cover
Water to fill pool
Brush, Hose, Pole, Net for Manual cleaning
Test Kit

Upgrades we've accepted:
Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump ($825)
Pentair IntelliChlor ic40 SWCG ($1,350)
Upgraded electric run to pad for future Heat Pump ($200)
Full-End Vinyl Covered Steps, Bench & Sunshelf ($3,950)
6 ft Vinyl Covered Bench @ deep end ($1,750)
Additional concrete for 708 sf deck ($2,669)
Stamped concrete (708 sf) ($5,019)
13LF concrete steps ($1,100)
Pentair EasyTouch w/ ScreenLogic 2 app-based controls ($2,500)
(2) LED Lighted Bubblers in Sunshelf ($2,500)
GLI Mesh safety cover w/ pump ($3,650)

So there we have it. Anything look off or are we missing anything?

We're scheduled to start excavation in July (sooooo far away). I'll share progress pictures of the construction as it moves along. I still need to choose a liner and color/pattern for the stamped concrete (which we will not be sealing, by the way...we don't want a skating rink).

I'd love to hear any feedback anyone may have!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pentair EasyTouch w/ ScreenLogic 2 app-based controls ($2,500)

110,

I have an EasyTouch with Screenlogic and love it... it will work just fine for your pool... But...... if I were building a new pool today I would install the Pentair IntelliCenter.. It does all the stuff the EasyTouch will do plus much more for about the same price.. Here are a couple of examples.. The ET allows you to have 12 schedules./programs. The IC has 100 schedule/programs.. The EasyTouch does not have macros (where you can combine several commands into one) The IC does have macros. ScreenLogic is an add on for the ET.. The IC has a similar system built in...

No matter which you buy.. make sure your pool builder gets the EasyTouch or IntelliCenter with built-in Salt cell power supply... It just make sense to have everything in the same cabinet and it cost less..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bmoreswim]

Where is the equipment going? Make sure you have a big pad size (I see it's 5x10 which is good) for your future heatpump and all current goodies. Being detailed as you are, you may prefer to work with your builder to layout the pad in advance so there are no surprises on getting some spaghetti piping layout or contortionist skills needed to access things.

I'd get a main drain of this style versus the dual round MD's. A&A channel drain Then you have zero chance of a robot getting stuck or slowed down on it. They have both gunite and vinyl liner models. I wish I had these.

Also definitely get these...Pour-A-Lid The skimmer cover will blend right in with your poured deck. I do have these and they look great.

They also make drain covers which could be cool if they work with your drainage system. I don't have these as my deck drain setup is linear.

 

[Mdz110]

110,

I have an EasyTouch with Screenlogic and love it... it will work just fine for your pool... But...... if I were building a new pool today I would install the Pentair IntelliCenter..

No matter which you buy.. make sure your pool builder gets the EasyTouch or IntelliCenter with built-in Salt cell power supply... It just make sense to have everything in the same cabinet and it cost less..

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize there was a more updated system available. I'm not sure why the PB offers the Easy Touch and not the IntelliCenter. Maybe they find the IntelliCenter to be too complicated for the average homeowner?? I can't imagine how many programs we would need - we only have 2 bubblers and 3 lights as "accessories". I figure if someone has multiple features (waterfall, jets, bubblers, spa, heater) that would mean more complex programs and the IntelliCenter's expanded programming would be more applicable?

I will certainly ask about it and will ask about the Salt Cell Power supply.
Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Mdz110]

Where is the equipment going? Make sure you have a big pad size (I see it's 5x10 which is good) for your future heatpump and all current goodies.

I'd get a main drain of this style versus the dual round MD's. A&A channel drain Then you have zero chance of a robot getting stuck or slowed down on it. They have both gunite and vinyl liner models. I wish I had these.

Also definitely get these...Pour-A-Lid The skimmer cover will blend right in with your poured deck. I do have these and they look great.

They also make drain covers which could be cool if they work with your drainage system. I don't have these as my deck drain setup is linear.

Below is an expanded image of the property showing in yellow where the equipment bad is going. I was worried it was a little far but the PB didn't seem concerned. If we keep the arborvitaes we have currently planted along the left side of our patio it will totally screen the pad. Our grade slopes down from right (highest) to left(lowest) on the plan, so at the location of the pad our grade is about 6 -7 ft below the sill of the kitchen window which we don't open that often, so hopefully noise won't be an issue. We do plan to put a heat pump in next Spring, not a gas heater so as I understand we can set it as close to the house as we want. I will talk to our site super about the layout and where all the pieces will go.



I don't think our PB does the linear drains - they did say they do 10" main drains rather than 8" (which is more of an industry standard according to them?). I really wanted to get the "Color Magic" drain covers so they'd blend in, but it sounds like for what we are getting white is our only choice which is a bummer considering the darker liners i'm looking at.

I love the Pour-A-Lid. Definitely will ask for that considering the upcharge to do the stamped concrete. We don't need a bunch of white lids all over the place.
Thank you!

 

[jimbethesda]

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize there was a more updated system available. I'm not sure why the PB offers the Easy Touch and not the IntelliCenter. Maybe they find the IntelliCenter to be too complicated for the average homeowner?? I can't imagine how many programs we would need - we only have 2 bubblers and 3 lights as "accessories". I figure if someone has multiple features (waterfall, jets, bubblers, spa, heater) that would mean more complex programs and the IntelliCenter's expanded programming would be more applicable?

I will certainly ask about it and will ask about the Salt Cell Power supply.
Thanks for the feedback!

It’s not anymore complicated...if you don’t want it to be. The basics are extremely easy to program. I had to tell my PB about IntelliCenter. They are construction people at the end of the day. There is no incentive for them to go with the latest unless the customer is pushing for it. I second Jim R’s advice. There is absolutely no reason to go with Easy Touch instead of IntelliCenter. If your PB initially says no, just insist on it...you’ll be happy that you did.

 

[dunginhawk]

My pad is about 5' above the level of the pool and about 90ft of pvc for skimmer, drains and returns.. it functions just fine... Yours is def not too far

 

[kimkats]

I LOVE your design and how well thought out everything is.

Bubblers-I would rethink them in a vinyl pool. I see them as another hole that have the possibility of leaking for a "party favor". Quite a few people find them too noisy so end up not using them very often. They also cause your pH to rise due to the aeration. Just some things to think about.

Kim

 

[jimim]

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize there was a more updated system available. I'm not sure why the PB offers the Easy Touch and not the IntelliCenter. Maybe they find the IntelliCenter to be too complicated for the average homeowner?? I can't imagine how many programs we would need - we only have 2 bubblers and 3 lights as "accessories". I figure if someone has multiple features (waterfall, jets, bubblers, spa, heater) that would mean more complex programs and the IntelliCenter's expanded programming would be more applicable?

I will certainly ask about it and will ask about the Salt Cell Power supply.
Thanks for the feedback!

It’s not more complicated for a home owner. It’s just the new model I see it as. More refined. Like a new model design year for a car. Haha

I would not build a pool today with the old system when there is an updated version out.

 

[jimim]

I know you are pretty far along but did u consider gunite? Those vinyl upgrade add up pretty quick. I’m just tossing it out there. Sorry.

 

[thejeff]

Looks awesome! Very nice design!!

Curious why no heat pump or any other heater? I know Pennsylvania climate is milder than ours (Atlantic Canada) but certainly not Florida, Texas or Arizona weather. A warm pool makes all the difference in the world for us - hard to quantify but I'm sure it multiplies the amount of use we get out of ours by several factors. We heat ours to 87-88 degrees.

Personally, I would not have put in a pool without a heat source. Even when we rent homes in Florida when we visit Mickey Mouse, we always pay extra for additional pool heat or else it's not overly comfortable. Just my 0.02 cents!

Also, and this may be specific to my climate, I am not a huge fan of stamped concrete. There is a lot of risk of a poor result (i.e. the concrete curing before the cement finisher is done doing his thing - I've seen it happen many times) and also if your area is subject to freeze/thaw cycle, cracks will likely show up in the concrete which my OCD can't handle due to underlying frost heave. You will also need to apply sealer from time to time and it will lose some of it's color over time. Different sections (different concrete pours) will not always perfectly blend in. Any future repairs will never match, etc. Perhaps these are just based on personal and local experience in my part of the world, where frost cycles are intense - I am also extremely fussy on details. Just thought I would add that. There is no perfect alternative though - everything has pros and cons but I personally opted for mid to high end concrete pavers and coping (Techo-Bloc) on a solid and 12 inch thick base. So far so good and repairs are easy if required.

 

[Gorilla83]

Hello from SE PA. Thornton, PA checking in here. My thoughts having just completed my build:

-Automation is 1000% worth it. I'd honestly not even consider building a pool without it, especially with the spa and heater controls being so handy. Also agree if you can get the new version go for it, otherwise the Easytouch works great
-Agree with pushing for A&A channel drains, looks nice and prevents hangup of cleaners
-I probably wouldn't spend the money on bubblers if I were to build again
-Definitely go for the heater if you can all swing it. If you have natural gas or access to it, go for that vs. heat pump
-Variable speed pump and salt setup absolutely worth it as well

 

[Mdz110]

Bubblers-I would rethink them in a vinyl pool. I see them as another hole that have the possibility of leaking for a "party favor".

Kim

I honestly was a bit hesitant on the bubblers for that reason...but PB assured me they were no different than the holes needed for the drains, supplies, etc. And now I'm really excited about them - maybe the most excite about them more than any other feature of the pool (minus the sunshelf)! We really wanted something to 1) give movement to the water, and 2) provide some background noise of running water. We went into this wanting a waterfall - but the cost of the boulders and plumbing for that put us waaayyy over where we wanted to be from a cost standpoint. I feel like it would be amazing to sit on a lounge chair with the bubblers on a low setting and just have them give the water some motion.

Also, now that you mention the bubblers, we were planning on an umbrella sleeve in the sunshelf. I was very hesitant about that and the potential for leaks (plus when the umbrella isn't in it's basically an open hole in the sunshelf which is a little odd) but again, the PB has done it in vinyl pools and didn't express any concerns over leaks.

I will make sure I grill them on the durability of the bubblers and umbrella sleeve.

If you wouldn't do the bubblers, what would you suggest for some noise/water movement?

 

[Mdz110]

I know you are pretty far along but did u consider gunite? Those vinyl upgrade add up pretty quick. I’m just tossing it out there. Sorry.

Great question. Honestly, I've been in a lot of gunite pools and I feel like the surface is rough. I like the smoothness of the vinyl. We were in a friend's gunite pool once and my kids feet were torn to shreds and very sore the next day, but they didn't realize it at the time. Now, maybe that's a pool that desperately needed to be re-finished, I'm not sure, but it gave me a sour impression. I initially wanted fiberglass until I realized not many installers like them, there's limitations to design and there can be finish issues.

Also, the obvious - cost of the base gunite pool is substantially higher than the vinyl. I bet we could do the gunite with no upgrades and be comparable in cost to where we are with the vinyl pool plus the upgrades.

 

[Mdz110]

Looks awesome! Very nice design!!

Curious why no heat pump or any other heater?

Also, and this may be specific to my climate, I am not a huge fan of stamped concrete. There is a lot of risk of a poor result (i.e. the concrete curing before the cement finisher is done doing his thing - I've seen it happen many times) and also if your area is subject to freeze/thaw cycle, cracks will likely show up in the concrete which my OCD can't handle due to underlying frost heave. You will also need to apply sealer from time to time and it will lose some of it's color over time. Different sections (different concrete pours) will not always perfectly blend in. Any future repairs will never match, etc. Perhaps these are just based on personal and local experience in my part of the world, where frost cycles are intense - I am also extremely fussy on details. Just thought I would add that. There is no perfect alternative though - everything has pros and cons but I personally opted for mid to high end concrete pavers and coping (Techo-Bloc) on a solid and 12 inch thick base. So far so good and repairs are easy if required.

We do plan to put a heat pump in next Spring. We're having the pad sized to fit it and the electric upgraded in order to be able to just wire the equipment when we get it installed. I think we're going to want it too...otherwise the swimming season in SE PA will be way to short!

As far as the stamped concrete - I'm not overly thrilled that we're going in that direction for the reasons you mentioned. What I wanted is the same Techo-Bloc Blu 60mm pavers we have for our patio now. But that was $12k more than stamped concrete (708 sf of deck area). However, I also couldn't bear to go with the plain white, sponge-finish concrete since I think it will stand out like a sore thumb in what I otherwise wanted to be a natural-looking landscape. So...the concession was to go with stamped concrete.

We will not be doing a typical stamped pattern (like flagstone, bluestone), but will instead get the surface stamped with a texture, and then have them come back and sawcut in some control joints in a large-scale diamond pattern. My hope is that this will disguise the control joints and also give us the movement the slab will need to withstand the freeze-thaw cycle. Will it get hairline cracks? Yes. But hopefully nothing too deep and no spalling on the surface. Here's a picture of what I'm going to ask them to do. We also don't plan to seal it at all. I know...not a great idea...but it gets too slippery and, in my opinion, too dark in color when sealed. The surface in the photo below looks like the surface of our Techo Bloc pavers (which are also not sealed) so I'm hoping it will blend ok.

 

[Mdz110]

-Definitely go for the heater if you can all swing it. If you have natural gas or access to it, go for that vs. heat pump

We have propane and no access to natural gas. So I was planning for a heat pump which will also save us the plumbing cost of running the gas from our underground tank to the equipment pad.
Curious - why do you recommend gas over the heat pump? Other than gas heating the water more quickly, my understanding is that the heat pump is much, much more efficient.
Thanks for the feedback!

 

[thejeff]

We do plan to put a heat pump in next Spring. We're having the pad sized to fit it and the electric upgraded in order to be able to just wire the equipment when we get it installed. I think we're going to want it too...otherwise the swimming season in SE PA will be way to short!

As far as the stamped concrete - I'm not overly thrilled that we're going in that direction for the reasons you mentioned. What I wanted is the same Techo-Bloc Blu 60mm pavers we have for our patio now. But that was $12k more than stamped concrete (708 sf of deck area). However, I also couldn't bear to go with the plain white, sponge-finish concrete since I think it will stand out like a sore thumb in what I otherwise wanted to be a natural-looking landscape. So...the concession was to go with stamped concrete.

We will not be doing a typical stamped pattern (like flagstone, bluestone), but will instead get the surface stamped with a texture, and then have them come back and sawcut in some control joints in a large-scale diamond pattern. My hope is that this will disguise the control joints and also give us the movement the slab will need to withstand the freeze-thaw cycle. Will it get hairline cracks? Yes. But hopefully nothing too deep and no spalling on the surface. Here's a picture of what I'm going to ask them to do. We also don't plan to seal it at all. I know...not a great idea...but it gets too slippery and, in my opinion, too dark in color when sealed. The surface in the photo below looks like the surface of our Techo Bloc pavers (which are also not sealed) so I'm hoping it will blend ok.

View attachment 106932

Ah perfect - it definitely extends the pool season. My pool water would be around 70 this time of year, but with the heater I have it at 88 degrees and the heat pump only runs a few hours in the morning (my pool pump starts at 6AM and is off all night). It drops a few degrees overnight but am back to target by 9AM or so. I think it's more efficient doing it this way - allowing the heat pump to not run at night when it's the coldest (heat pumps are more efficient in higher temps when heating). Not sure why you would go propane or NG heater over a heat pump. Efficiency is not comparable.

Looks like you've thought out your stamped concrete situation and I must say that your plan makes a lot more sense than the alternatives (flag stone pattern, etc.). Also, if you don't have much color in the mix, you won't have much fading without the sealer. The pattern above is not what I expected when I think stamped concrete - that is very nice looking.

As for Techo-Bloc, nice to see those products popular in the U.S. - I thought they were more popular in our parts because Techo is a Canadian company . We have Techo-Bloc Blu (Smooth) 60mm all around our pool and Bullnose Grande coping. It is fantastic. The smooth cut (I assume you have the regular Slate version for your deck, which should look great next to your stamped concrete pattern) is surprisingly not slippery even when wet around the pool.

I did not realize there was such a cost difference between stamped concrete and good pavers. Good luck with your build!!

 

[jimim]

Pavers can get expensive especially with install choice. It doubles in my area when you add concrete under to overlay the pavers on. But pavers prices vary so greatly also. I have over 3000 square of pavers. Luckily I used a rumbled one that wasn’t crazy but my retaining wall from the same company was over 7x more than I thought. The block were crazy expensive. Even at contractor price with my account. I didn’t bother asked when I ordered cause I just figured it was more but not that much more. Lucky I didn’t need a ton but my wife was ticked to say the least. Lol

I think ur stamped pattern looks great. Just make sure they pour it in perfect weather so it doesn’t peel. My neighbors porches look horrible cause they poured when it was colder.

 

[kimkats]

You can get a large cantilever umbrella instead of a holder in the pool. That way you can move it as needed/wanted.

Kim

 

[Mdz110]

OK - we are underway! Excavation started on August 5th (which was actually supposed to be Jul 31st - so we already had a delay before we even broke ground...). Here's some photos:

Day 1: Excavation
I was amazed at how precise they were with that huge piece of equipment. Followed the lines exactly and even carefully removed my 3 arborvitaes within inches of our patio and set them aside for me.








About 6 hours in they hit a big rock. Fortunately, they were close to the depth they needed to get to in the deep end, but the rock had to be jackhammered out. That earned us a $500 Change Order for extra time to jackhammer and extra labor to install the wall panels the following day.