Fighting Mustard Algae yet again, am I on the right track?

[JasonLion]

You don't normally want to ever drain and refill an in-ground vinyl pool, and even if you could it is very likely to be simpler to get the PH under control and then shock the pool to kill the algae.

First, get the PH down to 7.2 with acid. Then shock the pool. You should use bleach to bring the FC level up to shock level, and can then use the SWG to help maintain shock level, though it will probably still need bleach to supplement the SWG.

 

[reebok]

Uploaded the video to YouTube, quality's not great but...
Here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIodu0TaK0

eek! I hope you filed that under horror videos. I recommend adding a Mature ESRB rating also, to make sure virgin eyes don't see that!

 

[SinistrV6]

You don't normally want to ever drain and refill an in-ground vinyl pool, and even if you could it is very likely to be simpler to get the PH under control and then shock the pool to kill the algae.

First, get the PH down to 7.2 with acid. Then shock the pool. You should use bleach to bring the FC level up to shock level, and can then use the SWG to help maintain shock level, though it will probably still need bleach to supplement the SWG.

I was half-joking about the draining but I do need to get the wrinkles out of the shallow end eventually.

 

[Casey]

It's a shame YOUTUBE isn't being nice to me today. I really wanted to watch your vid. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Cherie]

You don't normally want to ever drain and refill an in-ground vinyl pool, and even if you could it is very likely to be simpler to get the PH under control and then shock the pool to kill the algae.

First, get the PH down to 7.2 with acid. Then shock the pool. You should use bleach to bring the FC level up to shock level, and can then use the SWG to help maintain shock level, though it will probably still need bleach to supplement the SWG.

Hey Jason, I know why you don't ever want to drain a buried AG pool. But why not an in-ground vinyl?

 

[jeffpat]

Hello Richard,

I just joined this forum and am definitely no expert in pool care but felt compelled to respond because I fought a very similar battle with mustard algae 2 years ago and the key to my win was PHOSPHATES!!! I tried just about everything you have tried so far and nothing worked for me. I was vacuuming to waste, shocking, etc. every day for 2 weeks and could not stop the MA from forming every night. I finally dumped 2 gallons of PhosFree into the skimmer and the MA was gone in 2 days. I've used Alum since then b/c it's much cheaper and it works very well too. You just have to vacuum up the white precipitant that falls to the bottom. Good luck! I definitely feel your pain. Let me know how it goes.

Jeff

 

[SinistrV6]

phosphates? Thats a solution i havent heard before. Im certainly willing to try anything at this point. Im at WallyWorld buying more bleach right now.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Phosphate removers are HUGE profit makers for pool stores. Phosphate levels in a properly chlorinated pool are irrelevant. If you keep you FC at the recommended levels, and follow advice re: shocking, the chlorine is all you need.

 

[SinistrV6]

Phosphate removers are HUGE profit makers for pool stores. Phosphate levels in a properly chlorinated pool are irrelevant. If you keep you FC at the recommended levels, and follow advice re: shocking, the chlorine is all you need.

I dont doubt that but Im getting tired of this. Ive shocked above 30 and this stuff keeps coming back. If the phosphate remover would let me get a "foothold" in this battle itd be worth it.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I just watched your video. I'm not convinced that's mustard algae...

But let's assume it is. Either way, chlorine is the answer. If you follow the advice on page 2, wherein you should shock your pool and then run with an elevated chlorine level for a month or so, and brush daily, the algae should go away. If you still have that stuff at shock/elevated levels, then its either dead algae or dirt/pollen.

I suspect what you are seeing is in fact dead algae settling on the steps. Because twice since you began this thread, your FC levels have been allowed to get too low for the recommended levels for your CYA its fairly easy for algae to take hold in that scenario. I think that's what you are seeing.

If you take your pool up to shock level and hold it there, the algae will die. You should use liquid chlorine for this, and have the SWG off when you perform the overnight FC test. Follow the instructions in Pool School.

Once your FC is holding overnight, you can allow the FC to drop to say 2-3 ppm higher than your "norm". If you brush daily, and keep the FC up this way for a month, I don't think it will come back, even with your circulation concerns/dead spots.

You really don't need phosphate remover, you need to be consistent with the FC levels and shocking the pool. I know this was impossible while you were away but maybe now you can make some headway.

Sorry things are giving you such a headache.

 

[jeffpat]

I agree that PhosFree is way overpriced, but I am telling you, removing the PHOSPHATES was the only thing that worked for me. I only use Alum now because is it very inexpensive. I don't completely understand the chemistry, but it combines with the phosphates and settles to the bottom of the pool as a white precipitant that you vacuum to waste. I did a ton of research and the theory is that algae use phosphates for food so you're not killing the algae by removing the phosphates, but removing its food source (which eventually kills them). Good luck!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Yes, phosphates are algae food. But if you have proper levels of FC in the pool, they are totally irrelevant. Why spend money on unneccessary pool store chemicals if you don't need to?

I'd be willing to bet in virtually 100% of similar algae problems, the pool owners simply aren't being consistent in dosing and/or aren't using enough chlorine.

 

[SinistrV6]

It is growing so its algae of some kind. I have no trees in or near my yard and i have black cars (id see it) so its not pollen im sure. A month of elevated FC levels? First time I e seen that duration recommended. Ill try it. Its hard to work on this hole in the ground and work rotating 12 hr shifts. No one told me this would require DAILY work. I dont have that kinda time.
.

I just watched your video. I'm not convinced that's mustard algae...

But let's assume it is. Either way, chlorine is the answer. If you follow the advice on page 2, wherein you should shock your pool and then run with an elevated chlorine level for a month or so, and brush daily, the algae should go away. If you still have that stuff at shock/elevated levels, then its either dead algae or dirt/pollen.

I suspect what you are seeing is in fact dead algae settling on the steps. Because twice since you began this thread, your FC levels have been allowed to get too low for the recommended levels for your CYA its fairly easy for algae to take hold in that scenario. I think that's what you are seeing.

If you take your pool up to shock level and hold it there, the algae will die. You should use liquid chlorine for this, and have the SWG off when you perform the overnight FC test. Follow the instructions in Pool School.

Once your FC is holding overnight, you can allow the FC to drop to say 2-3 ppm higher than your "norm". If you brush daily, and keep the FC up this way for a month, I don't think it will come back, even with your circulation concerns/dead spots.

You really don't need phosphate remover, you need to be consistent with the FC levels and shocking the pool. I know this was impossible while you were away but maybe now you can make some headway.

Sorry things are giving you such a headache.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

It's hard to tell from the video - I don't know if it's my cellcard connection or the video quality. It just looked dusty....

Okay. So shock your pool, until the FC holds overnight. Remember to test 30 minutes after the last bleach addition of the evening- to ensure you reached your shock target. Brush the pool - especially the problem areas daily.

Once the FC holds overnight, allow the levels to drop back down. If your normal FC level is 4, run it at 7 or 8 for at least 2 weeks, maybe 3. Try to pay attention to the problem areas you noted - by brushing them - at least every other day if not daily. You have an SWG, so this should just mean a quick FAS-DPD test once every evening - 5 minutes a day... testing maybe 15 minutes of brushing. If anyone is swimming put them to work.

 

[reebok]

this is why I started a thread in this forum about making other recommendations (besides constant shocking). I agree it will work, but sometimes I'm willing to pay a little more for quicker results (be it pools, cars, house stuff, anything). sometimes I'm not. but by the time you hold shock levels for a month, will the $16 stop yellow bottle have been a better deal? or phos-free if you want to try it instead? it appears that the guys who make this site what it is (and it rocks) want to stick with the recommendations that have already been presented, and that's fine, but you should know there are other options. pool store options (which might be why no one wants to talk about them). I've used stop yellow or whatever it's called from pinch a penny many times (before I found this site and found out how to stop the algae before it begins) and it has always worked great. you will need bleach on hand while using it, but it's never taken me more than 3-5 days to clear the pool with that stuff. again, I am by no means a mod or expert, but that's my experience. ymmv. if you do decide to try something else, I would try stop yellow or the equivalent from your pool store, or phos-free, whichever is cheaper. I haven't used phos-free but the concept seems good as long as you don't have nitrates also.

 

[chem geek]

I just look at it as a cost convenience trade-off, sometimes with side effects. Similar to continuing to use Trichlor pucks but using an algaecide to prevent algae. One can pay more money to prevent algae growth and the primary ways of doing this (other than maintaining an appropriate FC/CYA ratio) are as follows:

1. Use of a copper-based algaecide or metal ion system. The problem is that one can get staining (especially on plaster) and have blond hair turn greenish.[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]
2. Use of a phosphate remover. If phosphates are very high, then this can get expensive for the initial dose and can cloud the water and leave residue to remove or filter. If the fill water has phosphates or fertilized soil gets blown in, then a maintenance dose is required to keep phosphates below 125 ppb or so.[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]
3. Use of a PolyQuat 60 algaecide added weekly. No significant side effects, but more expensive than linear quat algaecide.[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]
4. Use of a linear quat algaecide weekly. Inexpensive, but can produce foaming. Not always as effective (depending on type of algae).[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]
5. Use of 50 ppm Borates. We don't yet know how much this inhibits algae growth, but it certainly has a positive effect and is mostly a one-time dose with dilution make-up after that.[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]
6. Use of an ammonia-based algaecide. Used to work around high CYA levels to produce monochloramine to kill existing algae -- not useful as a preventative since it uses up Free Chlorine (FC).[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]
7. Use of sodium bromide algaecide. Used to work around high CYA levels to produce bromine. Will usually increase chlorine demand in outdoor pools exposed to sunlight. Turns a chlorine pool into a bromine pool until the bromine eventually outgasses.[/*:m:3o7a0dm2]

True yellow/mustard algae (as opposed to pollen which is often mistaken for this algae) is more resistant to chlorine usually requiring an FC of around 15% of the CYA level to prevent its growth. One can clear it from a pool by shocking at high levels of chlorine (FC that is 60% of the CYA level), but also need to get behind pool light niches and other areas where water circulation is poor and the algae can "hang out". One must also clean all poles and other items that touch pool water to avoid reintroduction.

Richard

 

[JasonLion]

We don't recommend things that have a high percentages of problems. Products like PhosFree and Yellow Treat can work really well, and they can also fail rather dramatically sometimes. I don't ever want to use a product if it is expensive and 20+% of the time it makes things worse rather than better.

There are other products, like polyquat and floc, that aren't worth the money and/or effort for most people, but at least they don't ever make things worse. Products like these do get occasional mentions here, though you won't see them coming up as the first choice very often.

 

[SinistrV6]

Just as an FYI, I did use "Yellow-Out" as recommended by the pool store the first time this occurred. Frankly, it was 3 years ago and I don't recall how well it worked. Just got back with my truckload of Bleach from WalMart. The Clorox had gone up to about $3.50/174 oz. but the "house brand" Great Value was $2.63/ 182 oz. It is 6% (I checked). I'm on vacation for 7 more days so I'm gonna try to hammer this thing into submission during that time.

 

[SinistrV6]

this is why I started a thread in this forum about making other recommendations (besides constant shocking). I agree it will work, but sometimes I'm willing to pay a little more for quicker results (be it pools, cars, house stuff, anything). sometimes I'm not. but by the time you hold shock levels for a month, will the $16 stop yellow bottle have been a better deal? or phos-free if you want to try it instead? it appears that the guys who make this site what it is (and it rocks) want to stick with the recommendations that have already been presented, and that's fine, but you should know there are other options. pool store options (which might be why no one wants to talk about them). I've used stop yellow or whatever it's called from pinch a penny many times (before I found this site and found out how to stop the algae before it begins) and it has always worked great. you will need bleach on hand while using it, but it's never taken me more than 3-5 days to clear the pool with that stuff. again, I am by no means a mod or expert, but that's my experience. ymmv. if you do decide to try something else, I would try stop yellow or the equivalent from your pool store, or phos-free, whichever is cheaper. I haven't used phos-free but the concept seems good as long as you don't have nitrates also.

My time is very valuable to me and spare time is very hard to come by. This pool has become a huge drain on my time and my wallet. It's hard to enjoy something that's this much work. When I come home at 0500 the last thing on my mind is working on that %&*#! pool. Then a half-day off and back to dayshift (up at 0315 home at 1715). Looks to me like I've bitten off more than I can chew. Man, how I'd like to have that $40k back!! I'd have a shop and the street rod would be finished!

Here's what I can't understand...why am I the only one that gets this stuff? None of my neighbors has any of these problems (I've asked them all.) Granted their pools are smaller than mine but they're all SWG, vinyl, IG pools installed by the same company! I related in an earlier post how one neighbor does NOTHING to his pool but add about 4# of shock at the beginning of Summer and that's the last time he touches it. I checked with him again and he assures me that it's all he does. He doesn't even own a decent test kit and assured me that if he had the problems I do, he'd have filled it in already! He's an offshore oil rig helicopter pilot and is only in town 2 weeks of the month. His wife and kids do nothing to the pool but swim in it. The pH is probably out of whack in his pool but so what? They're at Universal Studios this week but returning tomorrow. I'm gonna get a sample of his pool water just out of curiosity...

 

[reebok]

I'm gonna get a sample of his pool water just out of curiosity...

heck, I'd take it all while he's out of town