Features on a budget - IG build in Central Texas

[Jeffnhelen]

After a couple of months talking with numerous fiberglass and concrete pool builders we have finally signed a contract to start our first pool build! We decided on the concrete for the design flexibility to give us the most features for our dollar. It will be approximately a 10k gallon "sport" pool with a tanning ledge and swim-up bar for the adults, jump rock for the kiddos, and water sheer for sound/ambiance. Not shown on the PB drawing is a fire pit area I'm going to put in on the back-side of the pool just in front of my dwarf fruit orchard. PB primarily uses Hayward products so the pump, SWG, DE filter, lights and water features and automation controller will be from them for now. I have asked about spec'ing out the same equipment set from Pentair so will see what that price difference comes out to. I love automation; my house is currently run with Z-wave products so it would be awesome if I could integrate somehow with Alexa/Siri using either Pentair or Hayward. I also had them leave off the old style vacuum package as I am on the search for a smart robotic vacuum instead. If anyone has any experience or suggestions with automation and the Pentair vs. Hayward controllers let me know!

Right now we are waiting on permitting, but hopefully can get it laid out and start digging next week!




Specs on the pool so far:
POOL PERIMETER: 81' TOTAL AREA / SQFT: 396 SQ FT
POOL DEPTH: 3'6" TO 5' TO 4'
EST TOTAL GALLONS: 9,850
MAX WIDTH: 22'
MAX LENGTH: 29'9"

PLUMBING
-SIZE: ALL 2” SUCTION/RETURN
-RETURNS: AS NEEDED SKIMMERS: 2
-POOL MAIN DRAINS: 2 SPLIT
-FILL LINE: YES, CUST. IRRIGATION
-CLEANING SYSTEM: NONE HEADS: N/A
-FILTER RUN FTG: 18' WATER FEATURE FTG: 31'
-WATER SHEERS: 1 24" WATER SHEER BEACH FOUNTAINS FTG RUN: 16'
GUNITE
-NO. OF BENCHES: 3 BEACH STEP SQFT: 5 & 63
-LENGTH OF BENCHES: 6' / 4' / 4' STONE CAP ON BEACH STEP: NO
-ROCK NOTCH: NO RAISED BOND BEAM: YES
-SPA ARM REST: N/A BARSTOOLS: YES - 4 BARSTOOLS
-STEEL#3 3/8": NO #4 1/2": YES
TILE & COPING
-TILE CHOICE: TBS COPING CHOICE: TBS
-ROCK WATERLINE: NO DOUBLE COPING: YES - 43'
-WALLS: NO FINGER LEDGE: NO
-OUTSIDE FACING: SUNDEK - 60 SQ FT BROWN COAT: SUNDEK INSTEAD
WATERFALL: 12" X 18" X 12" RBB 8' IN LENGTH / 11 SQ FT / 8' IN LENGTH
INTERIOR FINISH
-POOL: BASE PEBBLE - TBS SPA: N/A
EQUIPMENT
-POOL PUMP: ECOSTAR VARIABLE 2ND PUMP: NO
-FILTER TYPE/SIZE: DE / 60 SQ FT CLEANING SYSTEM: NONE
-HEATER-TYPE/BTU: N/A LIGHTING: 2 LED LIGHTS
-CONTROLS: P4 WITH HOME CONNECT ALT. SANATIZER: SALT SYSTEM
DECKING
-DECK TYPE: BROOM FINISH CONCRETE MASTIC: YES
-DECK SQ FT: 380 SQ FT SUNDEK: YES
-TURNDOWN: NO SUNDEK EXISTING (SQFT): YES-112
-STEPS: YES DRAINS: NOT NEEDED

 

[kimkats]

Oh that is pretty!! I love the design! Looks like there is something for everyone!!!

Now lets look over this list:

-main drain-did you know you do not HAVE to have one? With your depths I think they may be toe stubs waiting to happen. If you do decide you want them let me know and I can show you a better drain that will help keep the toes safe.

-Equipment-make sure to get all model numbers..share them here and we will go over them with you.

-controls-P4 is too small. You can only control 4 things with it..... go up to 8

-salt system-need more details-you want it sized for double your gals.....saves the cell life and lowers your power bill!

That should keep you busy for a few.

Kim

 

[Jeffnhelen]

Oh that is pretty!! I love the design! Looks like there is something for everyone!!!

Now lets look over this list:

-main drain-did you know you do not HAVE to have one? With your depths I think they may be toe stubs waiting to happen. If you do decide you want them let me know and I can show you a better drain that will help keep the toes safe.

-Equipment-make sure to get all model numbers..share them here and we will go over them with you.

-controls-P4 is too small. You can only control 4 things with it..... go up to 8

-salt system-need more details-you want it sized for double your gals.....saves the cell life and lowers your power bill!

That should keep you busy for a few.

Kim

Kim thanks for the reply! I asked the PB for model numbers of the current set of Hayward equipment so I’ll be sure to post that up after I hear back. On the P4 question, you are right I will probably be maxed out as soon as they hook everything up so I will see about upgrading. Is that just an add-on module I can do myself though? Also, they initially tried to offer the OmniLogic as an upgrade when they had me spec’d with the Omni VS. is the OmniLogic not worth upgrading to from the ProLogic?

Finally, what is this lack of main drain you speak of???

 

[kimkats]

You will go up to the 8 instead of the 4. Twice the number of systems.

As for the OmniLogic and such.....that is past my knowledge base. I will call in someone who may know. Hold on a bit until he gets back with us.

Main drain-it is the drain that is in the bottom of the pool. It bring the water from the pool to the filter. A skimmer also does the same thing only from the top of the pool. You do NOT have to have the main drain. IF you do have a main drain it has to be done like this link says: https://www.poolsafely.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/pssa.pdf To me no main drain is safer than even the ones done like in the link.

Kim

 

[Jeffnhelen]

Kim,

The PB is installing two main drains to conform to the safety standards you linked to. I am new to all of this so don’t take my ignorance as defiance. Does the floor drain not serve a few purposes...circulate/filter water, pull in the cooler water to push through the higher returns, and pull in debris from the floor? Also, would the skimmers alone provide you enough incoming water to complete the turn-over cycle in a reasonable time?
I am curious about this “toe-safe” drain you mentioned — where can I find this?

 

[Jeffnhelen]

I received a list of the equipment from the PB. The first is the Hayward I am currently contracted for and then the Pentair that I can switch to for an additional $2500. The price difference is due to the fact they get bulk pricing on the Hayward stuff. He did say I could purchase my own equipment and receive a credit of almost $3300, but the warranty would be through whomever I purchase it from and not through them. Any thoughts?

Hayward Pool Equipment:
Ecostar 950 Variable Speed Pool Pump 3 HP – SP3295VSP
P4 Computer Control – PL-P-4
Home Connect – GLX HOMENET
Salt Cell – T-CELL-15
60 SQ FT DE Filter – DE6020
Backwash Valve – SP0740DE
Flow Switches & Fittings – P-KIT
2 LED Lights – LACUS1100

Pentair Pool Equipment:
Intelliflow Variable Speed Pump 3 HP – 011018
EZ Touch Computer Control – 520593
Screen Logic Interface - 522620
Salt Cell – I-C40
60 SQ FT DE Filter – 180009
Backwash Valve – 261142
Actuator - 5211485
Unions & Fittings – 11201-0154
2 LED Lights - 619994

 

[kimkats]

Main drain: http://www.poolfittings.com/channel-pebble-top/ Pretty and works better than the raised, round ones as well as safer for toes LOL

Your PB may not have understood what you meant...............IF he installs a main drain it DOES have to be two round ones or this channel. If you look at how it works you will see it has two pipes coming into it so in essences it is the same as the round one.

A main drain does/can help with circulation and water temp mixture. It is not necessary as the skimmer and returns will/can do the same thing. On pools deeper than 6' I do suggest using a main drain due to the water temp. Less than that I feel comfortable saying you do not need to have one as the water will get mixed up just fine. It is totally up to you. I just wanted to let you know so you can make an informed decision. That is what TFP is all about........letting you know your options so you know what is what!

I am going to ping someone to hop on this thread to help with your equipment chooses. This is my weak area still.

Kim

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jeff,

Equipment wise the two lists are pretty much the same. I am a Pentair kind of guy so I am a tad biased...

I think the IntelliFlo is a better pump, but I also think that the T-15 is a better salt cell...

The real key, in my mind, is service... If your pool builder is used to installing Hayward products, he will be able to do it in his sleep.. This might not be true with the Pentair products.

Warranty is another issue. You are paying for warranty one way or the other. It is built into the pool builders bid and if you go with Pentair you would have to pay if something failed...

The $3300 that you would get credit for is just about want that list of Pentair equipment cost...

I think you would be happy with either system....

If you do go Pentair the P/N for ScreenLogic is wrong.. It should be 522104 which is the everything you need, while P/N 522620 is only the wireless portion of ScreenLogic.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jeffnhelen]

Kim,

The builder will have two lines run to two separate drains so as cool as the channel drain looks it appears to have a fairly detailed install process that the PB would have to familiarize themselves with through almost all parts of the process. I noticed you have linked to these as well (http://www.poolfittings.com/superflow-360) would this not be just as good for my two drains?

 

[Jeffnhelen]

Jim,

Thanks for the input! If they are a wash in price then for me I would pick one over the other based on the automation and user interface. Is there a difference between the two brands in that regard? Again, I already have Alexa and Siri in my home so any integration with those would be a plus.

 

[kimkats]

Jeff........YES I forgot about those!!! There ya go!!! SCORE!

Kim

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jeff,

Here is a link for ScreenLogic... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjao73g7MzbAhUMiqwKHXJzAS4QFghHMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpulse%2Fintroducing-new-pentair-screenlogic-amazon-echo-skill-david-maccallum&usg=AOvVaw3tT51YkETiPCBPjsgjYzog

I suspect Hayward has the same thing, but again, I am not a Hayward guy and don't really know that for sure...

I can't say that I see much of an advantage to having it to be honest...


Jim R.

 

[sktn77a]

I'd go with the equipment your pool builder is familiar with. But if you do go the self purchase route, just confirm that you get the 3 year pentair warranty and not the 60 day base warranty (even if your pool builder installs it).

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Main drain: http://www.poolfittings.com/channel-pebble-top/ Pretty and works better than the raised, round ones as well as safer for toes LOL

Your PB may not have understood what you meant...............IF he installs a main drain it DOES have to be two round ones or this channel. If you look at how it works you will see it has two pipes coming into it so in essences it is the same as the round one.

A main drain does/can help with circulation and water temp mixture. It is not necessary as the skimmer and returns will/can do the same thing. On pools deeper than 6' I do suggest using a main drain due to the water temp. Less than that I feel comfortable saying you do not need to have one as the water will get mixed up just fine. It is totally up to you. I just wanted to let you know so you can make an informed decision. That is what TFP is all about........letting you know your options so you know what is what!

I am going to ping someone to hop on this thread to help with your equipment chooses. This is my weak area still.

Kim

Link is a start-

They don’t have to be spit round, they must conform to cpsc parameters & split - depending on how classified. & there are other ways to split besides the link..

The VGB link in the other post is outdated, 2018 made amendments, particularly to sump depth & pipe diameter.

VGB is a federal public pool mandate, most state residential codes strongly reflect it , but not to the letter.

State codes will reference IRC, IC & ANSI/APSP standards.
Pardon the alphabet soup, your builder & municipality know what to do.

 

[Jeffnhelen]

Jeff,

Here is a link for ScreenLogic... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...id-maccallum&usg=AOvVaw3tT51YkETiPCBPjsgjYzog

I suspect Hayward has the same thing, but again, I am not a Hayward guy and don't really know that for sure...

I can't say that I see much of an advantage to having it to be honest...


Jim R.

Jim,

There may not be an advantage, but I just like having everything available from one source — my phone. I was spoiled when I worked in I.T. I guess and only needed to stare at one screen all day to get the information I needed.

 

[Jeffnhelen]

Update* City Permit came back a couple days ago, but waiting the HOA approval. PB initially said it was up to me if we wanted to wait for the HOA or not as it would come back to me if they raised a stink, but they recently had an HOA try to impose fines on them because the homeowner decided not to wait. Guess it's back to the waiting game

In the meantime, I've tried to layout the pool myself based on the detailed survey given to the HOA and I'm thinking I might want some more visual pop for the people sitting around the fire pit to tie them into the pool experience versus just sitting behind it. I'm not sure how much more this will add to the cost, but I'm thinking either a small 8'-10' infinity edge or a couple 18"-24" sheers flowing water into a basin next to the fire pit:

 

[Jeffnhelen]

To maybe shed more light onto my post above— Here is my additions to the PB’s drawing...quite a bit of additional landscaping and hardscaping to do once the pool is done. You can see where I have the fire pit on the back side (top part) of the pool just below the trees. Again, my thought is there won’t be much to stare at besides the all beige back-side of my two story, so another water feature would be nice to complement the fire pit.

 

[Amazed]

Not sure but I believe any infinity type edge can be quite expensive, but hopefully others will chime in.

 

[kimkats]

That will entail another drain or some way to bring the water back to the filter so extra plumbing and such to make this happen. It will also have to be brushed and cleaned by hand as the vacuum will not get in there.

While it is pretty I am sure your guests will not mind looking at the pretty fire and pool. I just want you to know what will be needed so you can be ready for the extra cost.

Kim

 

[CentralTexian]

Who did you receive bids from and what led you to choose Ocean Quest? You say on a budget, which I take to mean the goal was low cost, but that looks like a very nice pool? Could you message me what the total bid cost was? I am just starting quotes for my Austin area pool and was debating whether or not to put ocean quest on the list - I was thinking hey may be cheaper since they are from outside Austin a bit? Pool quotes are very high, higher than I would have guessed for sure.