Equipment Selection - Comments? Questions? Suggestions?

[Jimrahbe]

Vec,

I did read here about a special valve that allows actual three way operation. I'm not sure how it works or how it would integrate with your automation. Might be worth looking into..

Sorry, for some reason I thought you had the Pentair EasyTouch automation system.. I'm not at all sure how many valves the Jandy automation system can drive.. It may be as simple as just adding them.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Veccster]

All Pentair equipment.

And I'll be using the EasyTouch 8 - Pool or Spa. That should give me 8 things to control.

1- VS pump
2- return/slide 3-way valve actuator
3- heater
4- pool lights
5- VS pump
6- deck jets 2-way valve actuator
7- waterfall 2-way valve actuator
8- landscape lights (or SWG if necessary)

Again, excuse my ignorance if the automation is not able to control everything like that. If the SWG needs to be automated, I will not include the landscape lighting.

If the above list is possible, then I could plumb it as follows:

Plumbing Design - alternate

 

[Jimrahbe]

Vec,

Well, kind-of...

Here is a quick rundown on how the EasyTouch 8 controls things... you have more than enough relays, that is not the problem...

1. Both your IntellFlo VS pumps will connect via serial cables, so they use no relays..

2. Your heater will connect to a special port just for heaters, so no relay is needed. (May want one for power, depending on how it is wired)

3. Valves are NOT connected to relays. Valve actuator's have their own connections.

4. One of the 8 relays is dedicated to the Pump/Filter function which is normally used to power the SWCG. So you really only have 7 usable relays..

5. Pool light(s) will take at least one relay. You will need one relay for each light, or group of lights, you want to independently control.

6. Pad light will take one relay.

7. Landscape lights will take another relay.

Now the downside... The ET will only support 4 valves actuators. Two of the valves are dedicated to the Intake and Return and are used to switch between the Pool and Spa mode. They cannot be used for other purposes. That leaves two valves that can be user programmable.

My suggest would be to set up your plumbing like your last diagram, but initially only install the two available actuators. After using your pool for a while, if you decide to automate the remaining valve, you can add a home made driver circuit which will use an additional relay.

Thanks,

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

You signature says "Jandy equipment", so I'm confused...

Jim R.

 

[Veccster]

Thanks Jim.....that's a huge help! Also, I fixed the sig

I guess I didn't realize some of those items didn't use relays.

I like your suggestion. So what I'll do is only use an actuator on the deck jets. The waterfall will always be on and the deck jets can be turned on remotely. I don't see the need to have the waterfall off and deck jets on. In rare case where I did, I'd still have manual control.

I'll send off the diagram and list of equipment to the builder. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Vec,

Waterfalls are a two edge sword.. They look great and sound great... but, they will cause your pH to increase at a drastic rate. You really, really don't want them to run 24/7. I'd add a Jandy valve if for no other reason than to control the amount of water going to them and to be able to shut them off when you want.

Nothing is Free..

Jim R.

 

[Just-a-PB]

FYI,
Easytouch Pool and spa comes with two actuators, that's a $300.00 savings if you are using them.
If you really want to save $$
Your water features and slide don't use much water. You could easily run this whole system on one VS pump.
If you are heating when running the features, it is not as efficient, only drawback, plus side is when you are running features, you are filtering.

I don't agree with ridiculously oversizing the Intellichlor. You pay more now, and pay more later when you have to replace it.

No, you can not manually adjust the actuators. You can "cam" them to change where they stop. They also have a programmable one that makes it easier to move those start and stop points.
But easy to set cam so you can run one, or both!!

 

[Veccster]

Vec,

Waterfalls are a two edge sword.. They look great and sound great... but, they will cause your pH to increase at a drastic rate. You really, really don't want them to run 24/7. I'd add a Jandy valve if for no other reason than to control the amount of water going to them and to be able to shut them off when you want.

Nothing is Free..

Jim R.

Thanks for the heads up on the waterfall and PH rise. I didn't know that. Since the waterfall and deck jets are on the 2nd pump, it will only be on when the pool is being used. Otherwise, I'll shut that loop off. Even during the day, I'm thinking the wife won't even bother turning it on. Kids will only care about the slide and that's on the main loop.
I'd plan to put a jandy valve on both sides (deck jets and waterfall) but only automate the deck jets side. That keeps me at only 2 valve actuators connected to EasyTouch.

FYI,
Easytouch Pool and spa comes with two actuators, that's a $300.00 savings if you are using them.
If you really want to save $$
Your water features and slide don't use much water. You could easily run this whole system on one VS pump.
If you are heating when running the features, it is not as efficient, only drawback, plus side is when you are running features, you are filtering.

I don't agree with ridiculously oversizing the Intellichlor. You pay more now, and pay more later when you have to replace it.

No, you can not manually adjust the actuators. You can "cam" them to change where they stop. They also have a programmable one that makes it easier to move those start and stop points.
But easy to set cam so you can run one, or both!!

Thank you for providing your insight. I do see that Pool and Spa ET comes with 2 actuators. And it's cheaper than the Pool or Spa ET. So that's probably the route I'll go.

I'm not looking to necessarily save money on this project. It's a $60k-$70k project so an extra couple hundred to do it right won't matter. I already have the 2nd loop plumbed anyway.

I'll have to price the IC60 vs the IC40. Similar to the EasyTouch (P&S is cheaper because it's more popular), the IC40 seems like it's cheaper because it's also more popular (easier to find in stock).


I spoke to the PB yesterday and he said he always puts sacrificial anodes on his saltwater pools. I've read that some think they are pointless and others think they are worth the cost for extra protection. I guess if he's including it, I'll go with it.

 

[needsajet]

Just following up to be sure you caught this option..., your feature pump is an on/off for the features. You can use cams on a 3-way valve, where one position ("off") is deck jets only, so when pump comes on, deck jets come on. Then your control system could switch a 3-way valve to "on" with the cam set for that side of the swing, and then it would be deck jets and waterfall. So everything is automated. The only limitation in that configuration, is that waterfall can not be run without deck jets.

 

[Veccster]

Just following up to be sure you caught this option..., your feature pump is an on/off for the features. You can use cams on a 3-way valve, where one position ("off") is deck jets only, so when pump comes on, deck jets come on. Then your control system could switch a 3-way valve to "on" with the cam set for that side of the swing, and then it would be deck jets and waterfall. So everything is automated. The only limitation in that configuration, is that waterfall can not be run without deck jets.

Thank you. Yes, I saw your comment on the cams. That will definitely solve the problem. But I still want to run that retrun into a T and then put a Jandy valve on each side. That gives me the most control.

I can add the Actuator to one of those valves and play with the cams according to my needs. I guess I can see putting the actuator on the Deck Jets side and have the cams set to FULL OFF or HALF ON. If the waterfall line is left open, I can go to HALF ON and have both features running - or go to FULL OFF so only the waterfall runs. Downside is not being able to run only the deck jets at FULL ON to get them shooting high!!!

Since both will have the Jandy valve, I can swap it to the Waterfall side if I ever find the need for that instead. Either way, it's more control than only having one valve.

 

[needsajet]

Wasn't mine actually, credit goes to Just-a-PB, but just covering it off so you could automate the control if desired.