Electrical Shock

[Lprecords]

I had my 24' round pool put in about 2 months ago. I ran #8copper wire around the pool and connected it to the pool uprights in 4 different locations and then fed the copper through the grounding lug on the pump. By the way, my pump only has one grounding lug on it. Everything was fine until today when I touched the surface of the water I received a static shock. I have read many posts on the idea that grounding is different than bonding, however, it is not clear to me. Is grounding what I did when I put the copper around the pool? Is bonding when you ground the water through the skimmer to the pump? I am desperately hoping there is not a break in the copper wire I put around the pool as it is buried about 3 feet. (I had to backfill against my pool). Will my problem be fixed if I put a bonding kit on the skimmer like the Burndy Bwb680Ig In Ground Pool Bond Kit. Should I put another ring of copper around my pool? And my final question: How can I keep the copper that goes to the pump from corroding?
Thank you so much!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

@JamesW Paging @ajw22 Emergency, aisle Michigan! @Jimrahbe

Gonna call in the big guns for this one, Lprecords. Welcome to TFP!!

Maddie

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

We cannot tell you exactly what needs to be done to fix your problem. It often takes some experimentation. But bonding is when all surfaces you can touch from the pool and it’s electrical equipment are electrically connected.

This includes the pool structure and deck and pump and also needs to include the water. So you do need the water bond.

This wiki page explains more details about bonding...

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Also read...

Bonding vs Grounding

Electricity and water don't mix. Learn a few basic tips how to keep your family safe when dealing with electricity around your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

The #8 copper bonding wire will not corrode. Sometimes the equipment attachment the bonding wire connects to will rust.

Did the installation of your pool require a code inspection?

 

[Lprecords]

Welcome to TFP.

We cannot tell you exactly what needs to be done to fix your problem. It often takes some experimentation. But bonding is when all surfaces you can touch from the pool and it’s electrical equipment are electrically connected.

This includes the pool structure and deck and pump and also needs to include the water. So you do need the water bond.

This wiki page explains more details about bonding...

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Also read...

Bonding vs Grounding

Electricity and water don't mix. Learn a few basic tips how to keep your family safe when dealing with electricity around your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

The #8 copper bonding wire will not corrode. Sometimes the equipment attachment the bonding wire connects to will rust.

Did the installation of your pool require a code inspection?

Thanks for the info. I’m now reading some posts and I think I may have used the wrong type of screws to attach the lugs to the uprights. What are you supposed to use to attach them? Also I read that the copper ring needs to be below the liner? So I will have to dig up my back fill and redo?? There was no inspection. I plan to add the skimmer bonding kit.

 

[ajw22]

Show us the screw connections you used.

What do you mean below the liner? The bonding wire must be secured in or under the deck or unpaved surface within 4 in. to 6 in. below the subgrade and must be located between 18 in. and 24 in. from the inside walls of the pool outside the pool.

 

[Lprecords]

I used offset terminal lugs that I attached with self tapping screws, 8awg bare copper and #8 split bolt connectors.

 

[Lprecords]

Also, if I did this incorrectly, and since my pool is buried (in some places up to 3.5 feet) can I just put In another copper wire 6 in below grade and 18in out and attach it correctly? Thanks for your help!

 

[ajw22]

They don’t want self tapping sheet metal screws used because over time they will not make a good electrical connection with the leg.

 

[ajw22]

You can abandon the deep copper wire and run another one in the proper location.

 

[Lprecords]

They don’t want self tapping sheet metal screws used because over time they will not make a good electrical connection with the leg.

Ok, what should I use?

 

[ajw22]

Machine screws with washers and a nut that you can tighten well.

What are the screws in the package on the right in your pic for?

 

[Lprecords]

Machine screws with washers and a nut that you can tighten well.

What are the screws in the package on the right in your pic for?

How do I use a bolt and nut if the pool is already up? Not sure how to attach. Those are the split bolt connectors I used.

 

[ajw22]

How do I use a bolt and nut if the pool is already up? Not sure how to attach. Those are the split bolt connectors I used.

That is a problem. Fix everything else with your bonding. Fix the screws if you ever need to take down the pool.

 

[JohnT]

Bonding is your second problem. You have a voltage difference between your pool water and the ground around the pool. You need to find the source of that voltage, mitigate it and then address the bonding.

A first step would be to get a volt meter and measure from your bond lug to the soil and to your water, both on AC and DC. First with power on, then with your main breaker off.

 

[Teald024]

I notice a couple of issues. Your water isn't bonded. There are a few different types: the Burndy lug in the skimmer, a wire that goes in the pump basket, or any metal pipe that meets the area requirements. I used the wire in the pump basket.

The buried wire at the pool is too deep. It needs to be 4-6" below the finish dirt level and 18-24" from the pool wall. At this point it is easier to just run a new loop around the pool. You should to tie the new loop to the old loop with a proper split ring bolt.
You can connect the new bonding loop wire to the pool uprights near ground level using new lugs and proper bolts/washers/nuts.

The pump will have an obvious BONDING lug on it to attach the bonding wire to. This is assuming it is your typical AGP pump and not an Intex type pump. The GROUNDING lug is hidden behind a cover in the back of the motor where the electrical power connections are made. Do no connect the ground wire to the bonding lug.

Was the electrical installation done by a licensed electrician?

 

[Lprecords]

I notice a couple of issues. Your water isn't bonded. There are a few different types: the Burndy lug in the skimmer, a wire that goes in the pump basket, or any metal pipe that meets the area requirements. I used the wire in the pump basket.

The buried wire at the pool is too deep. It needs to be 4-6" below the finish dirt level and 18-24" from the pool wall. At this point it is easier to just run a new loop around the pool. You should to tie the new loop to the old loop with a proper split ring bolt.
You can connect the new bonding loop wire to the pool uprights near ground level using new lugs and proper bolts/washers/nuts.

The pump will have an obvious BONDING lug on it to attach the bonding wire to. This is assuming it is your typical AGP pump and not an Intex type pump. The GROUNDING lug is hidden behind a cover in the back of the motor where the electrical power connections are made. Do no connect the ground wire to the bonding lug.

Was the electrical installation done by a licensed electrician?

Yes, I had an electrician put a new breaker in for the pool pump and he put an outlet and switch by the pump. He put that grounding wire in the top bonding lug along with the one I put there. So, should I move the one the electrician did to the lug that is hidden?
I plan to run new copper around the pool, so does it matter that it won’t be near the base of the pool?
This may seem like an obvious question but here goes: The uprights are steel, the side is aluminum and the rim and caps are a resign; how does the bonding work if there isn’t a continuous connection from one to the next, or is that what I am creating with the copper?
Also, can I use hollo bolts since I have no access to the inside of the uprights?
Sorry for all the questions I can use all the help I can get!!

 

[ajw22]

Post pics of the wire connections to the pump.

 

[Lprecords]

Post pics of the wire connections to the pump.

Here is the wiring. He came out of the house, hooked up to a gfi, then ran #8 copper to the lug on top of the pump where I already had my copper attached. I foun the grounding screw on inside cover which already has a green wire attached to it. It seems too small to wrap this hick copper around.

 

[Lprecords]

Post pics of the wire connections to the pump.

I guess I should mention that the electrician went from the box in the basement through a crawl space and out the back of house.

 

[ajw22]

I foun the grounding screw on inside cover which already has a green wire attached to it. It seems too small to wrap this hick copper around.

The pump has two Independant connections that are not to be interconnected.

The green electrical ground wire connects to the internal screw inside the pump.

The bare copper ground wire connects to the bonding lug on the outside of the pump.