Does Anyone Have a Gate/Fence Around Their Pool?

[lasvegas1976]

My pool is in the process of being remodeled and re-plastered.

I live on a gated block and my backyard has security doors on both entry points of the property (with double deadbolts, so no handles to open doors).

Only eight homes within the gated block and only one other home has small kids (they have a bigger pool than me with no child fence I believe).

Right now we have a child fence around the pool (I think it's 5 feet tall?), but it's being removed for the remodel.

Our kids are a lot older now and both are experienced swimmers. They have been going to swim class for years, every week.

Once the pool is fully remodeled, I'm not fully sold on placing the child fence back around it.

My wife, on the other hand, is worried about the chance possibility that a child happens to sneak on the property, drowns, and we get sued. There is no statute that requires a fence around a pool in Nevada, only that you must secure an "attractive nuisance" - like not having open access to your backyard.

Not sure what some members thoughts are on this?

 

[PoolStored]

chance possibility that a child happens to sneak on the property, drowns, and we get sued

^^^This. Or adult, or dog. I wouldn't have a pool without a fence, even if the statutes allowed it.

Under the Southern Nevada Amendments, your pool must be surrounded by a fence that prevents access.
305.2 Swimming pools and spas. Outdoor pools and spas and indoor swimming pools and spas shall be surrounded by a barrier that complies with Sections 305.2.1 through 305.14.

http://www.snicc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ISPSC_Amendments.pdf

Essential Overview: Nevada’s Pool Safety Requirements

Let's find out more about Nevada swimming pool regulations and if you a required to have a pool fence or pool cover.

aquasafelasvegas.com

Last summer I went out to water flowers. 2 gallons in a bucket. Left the gate open. I wasn't gone for more than a minute or two, came back to this. Look at all the clues in the picture and tell me what happened. Stuff happens REALLY FAST around a pool. Stay safe.

DOG.jpg

• PoolStored
• Jul 29, 2022

 

[ajw22]

Not legal advice but I think as long as you meet all local codes your liability should be limited. Consult an attorney for more details.

Local teenagers are known to sneak into pools when the resident is away. Don’t know if you will have any of those types around you. I have security cameras to monitor my pool area at all times and to see if anyone sneaks in.

 

[lasvegas1976]

^^^This. Or adult, or dog. I wouldn't have a pool without a fence, even if the statutes allowed it.

Under the Southern Nevada Amendments, your pool must be surrounded by a fence that prevents access.
305.2 Swimming pools and spas. Outdoor pools and spas and indoor swimming pools and spas shall be surrounded by a barrier that complies with Sections 305.2.1 through 305.14.

http://www.snicc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ISPSC_Amendments.pdf

Essential Overview: Nevada’s Pool Safety Requirements

Let's find out more about Nevada swimming pool regulations and if you a required to have a pool fence or pool cover.

aquasafelasvegas.com

Last summer I went out to water flowers. 2 gallons in a bucket. Left the gate open. I wasn't gone for more than a minute or two, came back to this. Look at all the clues in the picture and tell me what happened. Stuff happens REALLY FAST around a pool. Stay safe.

DOG.jpg

• PoolStored
• Jul 29, 2022

We have walls and security doors. Unless someone climbs a wall (at least 7-8 feet+ I gather), someone is unable to gain access to the backyard and/or pool. I also have a 1080P video camera system around the property, 2 around the pool. And when all else fails, a large insurance policy with a 3 million umbrella.

To my knowledge, the attractive nuisance laws in Las Vegas are specific to young children - not adults - and that's what the personal injury lawyers note on their websites. The liability exists when someone who wouldn't know any better, a young child, came on the property and suffered injury on your pool or trampoline.

 

[PoolStored]

We have walls and security doors

Nice. Walls, if no hand holds other than normal masonry, good to go. Doors:

305.3.1 Gates or Doors. All single gates or doors a maximum of 8 feet (2.4 m) or less in width, shall meet the following requirements: 1. Gates and doors shall be self-closing and self-latching and comply with 305.3.2. 2. Gates shall open outward from the enclosed pool area.

305.3.2 Latches. The self-latching devices of gates or doors shall be one of the following:
1. The release mechanism of the self-latching device shall be located on the pool or spa side of the gate not less than 3 inches (76mm) or more than 6 inches from the top of the gate or door. The gate, door and barrier shall not have openings greater than ½ inch (12.7mm) within 18 inches (457) of the release mechanism.
2. Key-operated, self-latching locks maybe be mounted at any height above grade. Key-operated, self-latching locks that are integral to the gate or door may be used as latching devices, as long as they are permanently locked from the outside.
3. A device that is an ASTM F-1908, approved latching device. The latch shall be installed per the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

 

[lasvegas1976]

Nice. Walls, if no hand holds other than normal masonry, good to go. Doors:

305.3.1 Gates or Doors. All single gates or doors a maximum of 8 feet (2.4 m) or less in width, shall meet the following requirements: 1. Gates and doors shall be self-closing and self-latching and comply with 305.3.2. 2. Gates shall open outward from the enclosed pool area.

305.3.2 Latches. The self-latching devices of gates or doors shall be one of the following:
1. The release mechanism of the self-latching device shall be located on the pool or spa side of the gate not less than 3 inches (76mm) or more than 6 inches from the top of the gate or door. The gate, door and barrier shall not have openings greater than ½ inch (12.7mm) within 18 inches (457) of the release mechanism.
2. Key-operated, self-latching locks maybe be mounted at any height above grade. Key-operated, self-latching locks that are integral to the gate or door may be used as latching devices, as long as they are permanently locked from the outside.
3. A device that is an ASTM F-1908, approved latching device. The latch shall be installed per the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

Both security doors have a single double deadbolt. No handles, no other locks. It must be manually opened/closed with a key on either side (done so my kids were unable to leave the backyard).

 

[lasvegas1976]

Nice. Walls, if no hand holds other than normal masonry, good to go. Doors:

305.3.1 Gates or Doors. All single gates or doors a maximum of 8 feet (2.4 m) or less in width, shall meet the following requirements: 1. Gates and doors shall be self-closing and self-latching and comply with 305.3.2. 2. Gates shall open outward from the enclosed pool area.

305.3.2 Latches. The self-latching devices of gates or doors shall be one of the following:
1. The release mechanism of the self-latching device shall be located on the pool or spa side of the gate not less than 3 inches (76mm) or more than 6 inches from the top of the gate or door. The gate, door and barrier shall not have openings greater than ½ inch (12.7mm) within 18 inches (457) of the release mechanism.
2. Key-operated, self-latching locks maybe be mounted at any height above grade. Key-operated, self-latching locks that are integral to the gate or door may be used as latching devices, as long as they are permanently locked from the outside.
3. A device that is an ASTM F-1908, approved latching device. The latch shall be installed per the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

Just for reference, these are the only two entry points to the backyard.

 

[PoolStored]

Key-operated, self-latching locks that are integral to the gate or door may be used as latching devices, as long as they are permanently locked from the outside.

I read as "can't be keyed on the outside"

self-closing

Are they spring loaded (i.e. self-closing).

 

[PoolStored]

Gates and doors shall be self-closing and self-latching and comply with 305.3.2

Shall be = MUST BE, in legal parlance. IANAL.

Both security doors have a single double deadbolt

Think you want a self-latching (not deadbolt), and permanently locked from the outside.

*Don't shoot the messenger*

 

[lasvegas1976]

Shall be = MUST BE, in legal parlance. IANAL.

Think you want a self-latching (not deadbolt), and permanently locked from the outside.

*Don't shoot the messenger*

That's impossible. They are always locked, but I open one of them on Saturday morning so the landscapers can gain entry. The same on Tuesday for the pool guy and every other Monday for pest control.

On the other hand, every home on the block - which is gated entry to began with - has a pool and I'm the only one that has an actual pool fence. The only other home with small kids does not - and he's a real estate attorney with his own practice. I may keep the pool fence just as an added measure, I'll just have to weigh the options once the remodel is done.

 

[Bperry]

That's impossible. They are always locked, but I open one of them on Saturday morning so the landscapers can gain entry. The same on Tuesday for the pool guy and every other Monday for pest control.

On the other hand, every home on the block - which is gated entry to began with - has a pool and I'm the only one that has an actual pool fence. The only other home with small kids does not - and he's a real estate attorney with his own practice. I may keep the pool fence just as an added measure, I'll just have to weigh the options once the remodel is done.

I’ve never had a direct pool fence on any of the 5 pools I grew up around (friends and family) and currently own. Only thing they all had was a fenced yard. So I’d be surprised if there was any legal requirement to have an actual fence right around the pool.

 

[PoolStored]

That's impossible. They are always locked, but I open one of them on Saturday morning so the landscapers can gain entry. The same on Tuesday for the pool guy and every other Monday for pest control.

On the other hand, every home on the block - which is gated entry to began with - has a pool and I'm the only one that has an actual pool fence. The only other home with small kids does not - and he's a real estate attorney with his own practice. I may keep the pool fence just as an added measure, I'll just have to weigh the options once the remodel is done.

I'm not sure what "That's impossible" means.

I would not compare myself to others. Personally, I compare my situation to the requirement/regulations. *AS AN ASIDE* you need to assess your own risk tolerance. Again, IANAL.

The requirements are a self-latching (dead-bolt is not self-latching), self-closing (you have not indicated your gates are self-closing [does self-closing include latching...which a dead-bolt does not), and permanently locked from the outside (i.e. no key entry). To protect yourself (not legal advice), meeting the letter of the law is more important than your own evaluation of the situation.

 

[lasvegas1976]

I’ve never had a direct pool fence on any of the 5 pools I grew up around (friends and family) and currently own. Only thing they all had was a fenced yard. So I’d be surprised if there was any legal requirement to have an actual fence right around the pool.

For as long as I've lived in Las Vegas (12 years), and there are MANY pool owners that I know here, I'm the only person among them who installed an actual fence around my pool and that was mainly because my kids would play in the backyard and always make attempts to get in the pool.

 

[bradgray]

@lasvegas1976 theres some good and mindful advice here and I agree with it.

If I can be humbly frank, the discourse has appeared a bit as though you were hoping to find comfort or justification in leaving things exactly as they are. You can do this if you want, of course.

To me if feels a bit like a Naaman (the bible character) situation. Seems the only two things you'd need to be reasonably vested in accordance with all the extra advice here, are very simple and easy to add.

- A self-closing spring mounted to the gate.
- A keyed or electronic handle with a typical angled latchbolt in place of the deadbolt.

Both are found at most neighborhood hardware stores and fairly cheap.

My team services hundreds of Vacation Rentals, many of which are AirBnB style. As you might expect, we've seen some things from our acutely litigious society.

The reason you'd benefit by these two items are simple: the gate doesn't close itself, which means it could theoretically be left open/ajar. Ditto with the lock remaining open. And you'll have NO way to prove beyond reasonable doubt they were not.

You may be positive you'll never forget, but the plaintiff will pay a lawyer a sack of cash to suggest you aren't capable of that perfection.

My 2 cents are that the latch and spring is unbelievably cheap insurance considering you're already 99% of the way there.

 

[mgtfp]

We like the peace of mind of our fence when we have friends with small children over.

 

[lasvegas1976]

@lasvegas1976 theres some good and mindful advice here and I agree with it.

If I can be humbly frank, the discourse has appeared a bit as though you were hoping to find comfort or justification in leaving things exactly as they are. You can do this if you want, of course.

To me if feels a bit like a Naaman (the bible character) situation. Seems the only two things you'd need to be reasonably vested in accordance with all the extra advice here, are very simple and easy to add.

- A self-closing spring mounted to the gate.
- A keyed or electronic handle with a typical angled latchbolt in place of the deadbolt.

Both are found at most neighborhood hardware stores and fairly cheap.

My team services hundreds of Vacation Rentals, many of which are AirBnB style. As you might expect, we've seen some things from our acutely litigious society.

The reason you'd benefit by these two items are simple: the gate doesn't close itself, which means it could theoretically be left open/ajar. Ditto with the lock remaining open. And you'll have NO way to prove beyond reasonable doubt they were not.

You may be positive you'll never forget, but the plaintiff will pay a lawyer a sack of cash to suggest you aren't capable of that perfection.

My 2 cents are that the latch and spring is unbelievably cheap insurance considering you're already 99% of the way there.

If I leave things as is, I would be leaving a fence around the pool once the remodel is complete. And I may very well do that. I had one installed when I moved here in 2016 and I had one on my last home.

I have to first see how the remodel plays out. The fence was removed earlier today for the remodel. The holes for the fence are not being covered up when they re-do the deck, to leave the option of returning the original fence or installing a new one. The remodel will take a few months.

 

[Mdragger88]

On this one I agree with @bradgray
If you do as he suggests your perimeter will be compliant & secured from outsiders.
The child pool fence is for children/pets/visitor’s safety within the residence.
If you have no small children/pets & have the door & window alarms in place (whether you use them or not) then your home is compliant along with the gate features Brad mentioned.
Leaving the holes for the fence for the future is a good plan but a child safety pool fence like that doesn’t mean that you don’t need a self latching & locking entrance or door & window alarms on your home.

 

[Bperry]

For as long as I've lived in Las Vegas (12 years), and there are MANY pool owners that I know here, I'm the only person among them who installed an actual fence around my pool and that was mainly because my kids would play in the backyard and always make attempts to get in the pool.

It’s just my opinion of course so take it as that. Those fences directly around the pool edge aren’t very attractive and are not a guarantee of safety and so if it’s around the edge I’d be inclined to remove it. But my overall “backyard” IS fenced for security because there’s a pool (per the law) and I also have strict rules within my kids that’s they aren’t allowed back there (or their friends) without adult supervision. I certainly don’t rely on just a fence.

 

[bradgray]

On this one I agree with @bradgray
If you do as he suggests your perimeter will be compliant & secured from outsiders.
The child pool fence is for children/pets/visitor’s safety within the residence.
If you have no small children/pets & have the door & window alarms in place (whether you use them or not) then your home is compliant along with the gate features Brad mentioned.
Leaving the holes for the fence for the future is a good plan but a child safety pool fence like that doesn’t mean that you don’t need a self latching & locking entrance or door & window alarms on your home.

@lasvegas1976 this!

You don't need the inside fence if you make those two simple adds to your outside fence.

I do understand your situation. It's exactly what we did when we built ours. Spent 4 grand on a steel fence bolted to the pool deck because we didn't have our block walls finished. Once they were finished 3 months later, I took the fence out.

That amount of money on a temporary fence was a painful reminder of the nature of our society and what we have to do to protect ourselves from it.

 

[lasvegas1976]

On this one I agree with @bradgray
If you do as he suggests your perimeter will be compliant & secured from outsiders.
The child pool fence is for children/pets/visitor’s safety within the residence.
If you have no small children/pets & have the door & window alarms in place (whether you use them or not) then your home is compliant along with the gate features Brad mentioned.
Leaving the holes for the fence for the future is a good plan but a child safety pool fence like that doesn’t mean that you don’t need a self latching & locking entrance or door & window alarms on your home.

The reason I live where I live is for safety. This is a neighborhood made up of private gated blocks, it's not a normal residential area. All of the homes within my gated block are around 5,000 sq ft and every lot is a half acre and up. This whole area is half acre lots with pricey homes. Someone would first have to get past the front gate to enter the block, then the security door to enter the backyard and potentially a child fence if I keep it. Having said that, I have a professional 1080P video system around my whole property and three cameras inside the home as well, motion detectors, glass breaks, alarms on every door and window (the system beeps when anything opens).