Do I need a Pentair Easy Touch 4 or 8?

[civ_eng]

Sorry if this has been asked a million times. I read some other threads and still don't quite understand which Easy Touch unit will be right for my situation.

Pool Details
New Construction <20k gallons
No Spa
No Heater and likely to never add one
6 Hayward 2-way valves at the equipment pad. Pump & filter not selected yet.
2 Pentair Globrite LED lights (will function in unison with each other)
1 set of deck spouts
1 set of sunshelf bubblers
1 set of therapy jets

I'm looking at either the Pentair Easy Touch 4 or 8 with built in SCG and transformer (plus Screen Logic). If I want automated control of my lights, pump/filter, and the valves for my deck jets, sunshelf bubblers, therapy jets, and possibly other valves, will the ST 4 be enough?

I thought I read somewhere that the valve actuators don't require extra relays, or something to that effect. So with my setup, would I only need enough to control the lights, pump, and SCG, meaning the ST 4 would be fine?

Thank you in advance for helping me understand this better!

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

The EasyTouch has a Pump/Filter relay and three Aux relays.
The SWCG will use the Pump/Filter relay.
Each light that you want to independently control will need its own relay.
The IntelliFlo pump does not need any relays and you would be ill-advised to buy any other pump..
I'd want a light over the equipment pad, that will take a relay.
Anything else that needs 120 or 240 volts will need a relay.

Valves do not need to use relays.. But... the EasyTouch can only control two user programable valves. The other two valve drivers are dedicated to moving the Intake and Return valve between the Spa and Pool positions.. You can't program them to do anything else.. You can use them to do other things, but they will only move when you switch between the pools and spa modes.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Agree with everything @Jimrahbe posted.

Have you signed a contract or are you just in the mental planning phase?

If you are still in the paper & pencil phase, I suggest you seriously reconsider heating options. Everyone thinks that a heater is simply an expensive luxury and they consider not getting one to save costs but most people regret not having one. Even in warm southern climates, and especially in places like Florida where screen enclosures are almost a necessity, pool water gets cold, and unswimmably cold, very quickly. While most kids don't care about swimming in cold water, most adults cringe at any water temperature less than 85F. Even if you are not getting an attached spa, including the option for heating into your design is a good idea. Solar heating is a great option if you have a decent southern exposure to put the coils up on the roof. If not, a heat pump in your climate works pretty good and would simply require that you have a extra 60A circuit made available to the pool equipment pad as well as some minor additional plumbing to leave a loop available. If gas is available in your area and the equipment is not too far from the meter, then gas heaters are great at heating a pool up fast.

The point is this - your pool build is going to cost you a lot of money and it is an expensive endeavor. Upgrading from an ET4 to ET8 is peanuts in incremental cost relative to the entire project budget but gives you a huge amount of flexibility. Stubbing out the plumbing and equipping the pad so that it is "heater ready" is cheap now when you're in the build phase and avoids the unpleasant regret you will feel when years later you want to add a heater and you can't because you limited yourself up front.

Also, don't make the mistake that all FL pool builders seem to do by putting a tiny little pool filter on the equipment pad. It is without a doubt the easiest thing to spot a Florida pool because all of them seem to be built with the tiniest cartridge filter possible. As for filters, get the biggest one you are willing to spend money one because bigger means you will be cleaning it a lot less frequently.

Just some thoughts ... good luck with your build.

 

[TampaKathy]

+1 to what Matt said about a heater, lol. My pool was filled with water on Oct 27th...I made it 2 cold swims with a wetsuit on before I realized the error of my ways in not getting a heater! I now have an AqualCal 166R heat pump/chiller Yes, FL is known on this forum as the "land of the dinky filter." Bigger is better.

 

[ajw22]

And if you think you may ever want to install a Heat Pump as a heater then wire your pool subpanel/Easy Touch for at least 70 amps to 100 amps of service. It will cost you a small amount extra now and a big amount later.

 

[civ_eng]

Thank you for all the replies. So even with the ET 8, you're only able to control two valves? Hmm. Guess I shouldn't be too disappointed seeing as a week ago I didn't know any of this stuff existed. What prompted me was our PB telling me we'd have several boxes on the wall at the pad site. I hate boxes on walls! That lead me down the path of looking for a panel that integrated things, and fell upon the Easy Touch. Our PB is a small outfit and I doubt many of his clients opt for anything other than the manual timer setup he typically provides.

Pool is currently being constructed. No cage, so it should stay a little warmer. There's room at the existing pad site for a heater should we ever choose to do so. One of our external propane water heaters is also very close to the pad, so if we wanted to go the "gas" route, I assume we could somehow tee into that existing line.

As for the filter, my PB installs the Sta-Rite PLM 300, which is way overkill for our tiny pool, so I think we're good there!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Maybe it would be best to post a complete list of the equipment your PB is installing so we better advise you. “Small PB Shop” scares me a lot as these are guys that usually build the pool THEY know how to build rather than the pool YOU want. They also typically get locked into selling equipment they understand and get a discount on being an exclusive seller rather than the equipment that is best for you. For example, Sta-Rite was bought out by Pentair over a decade or more ago and the Sta-rite line of equipment is a dying dinosaur. Pentair keeps it around for legacy purposes and because there’s lots of cheap inventory out there. You’d be better going with all Pentair branded equipment so that everything works correctly with your automation system. Since your PB doesn’t typically install Pentair automation, that is a HUGE red flag as it’s not as simple as it looks. There are very specific ways of wiring that panel up depending on the equipment you pair it with and if the PB has never done it before, you’re likely in for a mess. You’d be better off asking him to subcontract the pad equipment to a licensed Pentair installer that has done the job before.

As for gas, propane is very expensive compared to natural gas and a gas pool heater uses A LOT of gas. Your tank may kit be big enough. If you don’t want to deal with that headache then just make sure there’s electrical service available for a heat pump.

As for valves, the ET panel can accept a valve expansion board that allows you to add on two more valves. But it’s not standard so you have to get it separate and either install it yourself or have a certified Pentair shop do it.

 

[civ_eng]

Thx for the comments Joyful Noise. My PB subcontracts the electrical work and his guy is used to doing automation, just not necessarily for my PB. When I mentioned Easy Touch to my PB he was very familiar with it and Screen Logic, I just don't think many of his clients opt for it.

I hear ya on the propane. We have a 500 gallon tank (400 useable). I looked up typically pool heater propane consumption and dang they use a lotta gas. We also have 100 amp service at the pad site, so that's an option as well. If we ever do decide to get a heater, it won't be anytime soon as there are just too many other projects in the pipeline that are higher on the priority list, like a backup generator (another gas guzzler).

Duly noted on the Sta-rite equipment.

 

[mknauss]

An Intellicenter would be a better choice for automation, especially if you wish to control a number of automated valves.

 

[civ_eng]

An Intellicenter would be a better choice for automation, especially if you wish to control a number of automated valves.

HA! What timing. I've been spending the last hour researching the Intellicenter. A little more expensive than the Easy Touch and doesn't appear to come standard with the IC20, but no need for screen logic and from what I understand with salt generators, the bigger the better, so the IC40 definitely wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Jimrahbe]

The IntelliCenter and the older IntelliTouch can accept additional valve drivers.. The EasyTouch cannot.

You can also make your own valve drivers that operate off of unused Aux relays.. A possible reason to go with ET 8 instead of the ET 4

I have three pools and they all have EasyTouch systems. I love them.. But... if I were to build a new pool today, I'd go with the new IntelliCenter as it is a much more modern system, that is just about the same price as an EasyTouch with ScreenLogic.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

A 20K pool needs a 40K cell as a minimum.. Your salt cell must be at least 2 x the volume of the pool. This is because salt cells are rated when running 24/7 at 100% output, something you don't want to do.

Anyone that tries to sell you a 20K cell for a 20K pool, has no idea how a saltwater pool works.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[civ_eng]

C,

A 20K pool needs a 40K cell as a minimum.. Your salt cell must be at least 2 x the volume of the pool. This is because salt cells are rated when running 24/7 at 100% output, something you don't want to do.

Anyone that tries to sell you a 20K cell for a 20K pool, has no idea how a saltwater pool works.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you. My PB quoted a 30K cell and my pool is about 11,000 to 13,000 gallons. I haven't discussed the 20K SG with him yet, so he'd likely tell me to just get the IC40.