DFW plaster and fill! Start up question

[cadw2005]

My original equipment plan calls for a Hayward 140k heat pump (hp21404t). My builder is having trouble getting one in and can't get an ETA from his Hayward rep. There is a Hayward 120k combo unit available for immediate pick up near me and will cost $350 more. Plumbing is going in today and electrical being done tomorrow or the next day. Should I go with the combo unit for convenience? I'm worried about electric efficiency when heating the water, how much longer it'll take to heat the pool in the spring and fall, but not too worried about the water getting too hot in summer due to the size.

More info - I live in north Fort Worth where is does get very hot in the summer. My pool will probably have sun from about 10 am to 4pm (trees along the length of pool one side and 2 story house on the other). It will have lighter color plaster like French Grey and will be 4' deep to 6' deep. 16' wide by 42' long so about 20k gal. Must have a Hayward product for the longer warranty on all the pool equipment.

 

[convan23]

Do you have a spa? What kind of temps do you want to have the pool during what kind of outdoor temps? Are you wanting to swim when it's 65 degrees outside and have it heated to 85 or ...?

If you're not worried about chilling then I might wait and just have the builder leave room for the heater.

Did you consider gas?

 

[cadw2005]

Our neighbor is putting a pool in this summer and is quoted $90K for a guinite pool 16x20 4-6 depth thats before the patio no spa, no cover, basic tile etc. Builders are quoting pools to start next August.

Well, now I'm feeling pretty great about the price I'm paying! $77K total for twice that size pool with a heat pump, only water feature is a bubbler in the tanning ledge, and almost 1300sf of decking!

 

[ajw22]

Electrical efficiency is the same between a 120K BTU and a 140K BTU HP. They will both use the same electricity to heat to a given temperature. The 120K will take a bit longer then the 140K.

A HP chiller is costly and inefficient. If you want a chiller then consider a Glacier chiller.

HPs are best for maintaining a set water temperature. When used that way the 120K will be as good as the 140K.

HPs are not the best for demand use when you want to rapidly heat a pool or spa to a given temperature before use.

 

[jimbethesda]

I am excited for my SWG! Also, your pool color is amazing! The pool I saw in person with tropics blue pebble was much darker than yours. Is yours the Stonescapes mini pebble version or something else (touch of glass, micro, Puerto Rico blend)?

Yes, stonescapes mini pebble

 

[cadw2005]

Do you have a spa? What kind of temps do you want to have the pool during what kind of outdoor temps? Are you wanting to swim when it's 65 degrees outside and have it heated to 85 or ...?

If you're not worried about chilling then I might wait and just have the builder leave room for the heater.

Did you consider gas?

I won't have an attached spa. I'm getting a stand alone hot tub instead. Gas is pretty expensive here and I plan on heating the pool a lot and maintaining the temp so I don't need super quick heat.
I'd like to maintain the pool at 85 degrees in spring (outside temps from 65 to 75 degrees) - same for late fall.

 

[cadw2005]

Torn about where to place the outlet to plug my robot into and also for landscape lights along the back fence. Below is a pic of my pool design and currently have the outlet being installed where the small red x is (top left, along fence near pool deck). I'm worried a 60' robot cord won't be able to reach the entire pool which is actually 42' long now(extra feet added on the side with the tanning ledge). I originally chose this spot so the cord is away from the active area of the pool deck.
Do y'all think I'll be all right with the outlet located here?

 

[ajw22]

What is the distance from the X to the corner of the pool?

The distance to the opposite corner is about 44 feet. Then you have the depth of the pool. So you have maybe 10 feet from X to the edge of the pool for a 60 foot cord to work.

 

[Mdragger88]

Remember that the cord length is from the control box to the robot. There is also some cord from the outlet to the control box so there’s a little wiggle room.
Speaking of the control box- do you have plans to shelter it from the elements? It isn’t waterproof (just water resistant) & shouldn’t be left in direct sun/ high temps for long. Many people have the power source under their patio or on the side of the house so they are able to accommodate it with shade/shelter while in use or better yet, most all the time with it running on a schedule.

 

[cadw2005]

I don't plan on getting too crazy with this thread but would like to keep track of progress and some thoughts. We wanted a simple modern pool to play in and be able to swim laps. The builder didn't create a very elaborate mock up - no landscaping or furniture or people playing in the pool so the design looks pretty stark. Once we get some landscape around the pool (to include tree form hollies or magnolias along the entire back fence line), some string lights, and a hot tub it'll look great!
We signed a pool contract back in late October and were waiting for 3 months for permits to be approved by the city. It was crazy. Once we got those, the builder scheduled the dig for the very next week 1/24.
The excavation company accidentally started the dig 2' closer to the side of the property than the design called for and the builder said we could leave it and have a 42' pool or have them fix it. I wasn't keen on them having to back fill the area for structural purposes and bigger is better, right??

Dig finished yesterday 1/25 and the steel and plumbing guys were here before the sun was up today. We ended up with a 120k btu heat pump/chiller combo which allowed the plumbers to get all the equipment placed and connected. Next, electrical is on the schedule for tomorrow.
The builder's trying to schedule the first inspection for Friday and if that works out then gunite will be on Tuesday 2/1.

All of a sudden things are moving super fast! From stalled with the city to gunite in possibly 8 days. Been outside multiple times with a tape measure and staring at all things pool - my family probably thinks I'm crazy.

 

[cadw2005]

Electrical efficiency is the same between a 120K BTU and a 140K BTU HP. They will both use the same electricity to heat to a given temperature. The 120K will take a bit longer then the 140K.

A HP chiller is costly and inefficient. If you want a chiller then consider a Glacier chiller.

HPs are best for maintaining a set water temperature. When used that way the 120K will be as good as the 140K.

HPs are not the best for demand use when you want to rapidly heat a pool or spa to a given temperature before use.

Luckily this combo is only $350 more. SO doesn't mind having the chiller option just in case the water does get too hot. I realize a stand alone chiller would be more efficient but we were never going to spring for a HP and a chiller individually, lol.
But your words on the electrical efficiency of a 120k or 140k btu HP make me feel a lot better! The combo's main function for us will be to heat the pool and rarely chill it.

 

[cadw2005]

We are going with the hp/chiller combo. I'll have to find this thread in the future and give my thoughts on how it worked out. Someone remind me at the end of the year! lol

 

[cadw2005]

What is the distance from the X to the corner of the pool?

The distance to the opposite corner is about 44 feet. Then you have the depth of the pool. So you have maybe 10 feet from X to the edge of the pool for a 60 foot cord to work.

I think it's 9 or 10 feet. I'll have to check in the morning

 

[cadw2005]

Remember that the cord length is from the control box to the robot. There is also some cord from the outlet to the control box so there’s a little wiggle room.
Speaking of the control box- do you have plans to shelter it from the elements? It isn’t waterproof (just water resistant) & shouldn’t be left in direct sun/ high temps for long. Many people have the power source under their patio or on the side of the house so they are able to accommodate it with shade/shelter while in use or better yet, most all the time with it running on a schedule.

Crud, I forgot about the control box. On one hand that's good, because I can hang the control box on my fence closer toward the middle of the short side of the pool and from that spot, I think a 60' cord will reach my entire pool. Just need to figure our some kind of shelter for it - a wooden box? A big fake rock?

 

[Mdragger88]

I have mine mounted inside a weatherproof deck box -

8C4AEB8E-FAAF-40A5-A782-90A79B2B8A2C.jpeg

• Mdragger88
• May 19, 2021

2F380C19-6744-4EBC-BCF9-869C58EA0769.jpeg

• Mdragger88
• May 19, 2021

it’s not a perfect solution because when it gets really hot outside 90+ the temp in the box gets quite hot so i try to open the lid a bit when possible during the times it is hottest/ in direct sun. Something with more ventilation would definitely be beneficial in my case. Do a search here about robot storage/shelters for some ideas. There’s quite a few threads.

 

[cadw2005]

Mdragger, thanks for your ideas! That was very useful.

 

[Mdragger88]

Mdragger, thanks for your ideas! That was very useful.

Glad to be of help
Another tip*
As far as outlets go … you can almost never have too many.
The cost to run a couple extra ones now in strategic places is much lower & less hassle than it will be to add them later when u may not get to put them where u want because of concrete or other obstacles.
You definitely wanna think about the future & how you will possibly use the pool. Will u need to plug in speakers? A cover pump? Phone chargers or decorative lights? Be sure that they are appropriately placed according to local & national codes of course.
Example: I have a 1970’s home & originally only had 2 exterior outlets (i am surprised there were any). I have since added 4 more plus a quad near the pool for my equipment. Two are usually only used for holiday lights then one for my cameras & one for my freezer. I will be adding more to my patio soon for the cameras & hot tub peripherals there.
My old house had an outlet about every 3 ft seriously
When we moved in there I thought it was absurd & I am an electrician. Over the years I realized how oh so convenient it was- I pretty much never needed an extension cord!

 

[Winger 03]

You will never regret having too many outlets.

 

[cadw2005]

Mdragger,​

I've been trying to imagine the future and various uses for electricity. My original plan calls for an outlet at the far end of the pool and at the far end of the house where the hot tub will be. I'll add another to the existing patio to the side, out of sight a bit so I don't see a cord running over the patio but still under the roof for additional string lights. I think that'll be enough.

 

[Dtkokay]

I’m a little farther south of the OP in Houston. As mentioned above, while the SWCG doesn’t operate below a certain water temp, the chlorine loss is pretty small at those low temps. My pool will lose 3-4 ppm of chlorine in the summer. In the winter, it seems to be 0.5 -1.0 per day, if that. I keep some liquid chlorine on hand, so I’ll manage FC using that during cold spells and turn off the SWCG.