Damp Soil Near Pool Equipment

[lasvegas1976]

What was in that area before the pool was installed ?

I only bought the house in 2016, pool was done long before that. That entire area used to have decorate rock. I replaced the rock with decorative soil back in 2018 or 2019. It wasn't long after that, that I noticed damp spots in the area.

I also found, while digging, those landscape blankets to prevent weeds, which indicates to me that there used to be irrigation in the area.

Those pipes could be inserts for irrigation lines, but I'm not 100% unless I dig more.

However, it's very hard to dig any further because there is a lot of caliche rock in that area - and likely needs a jackhammer.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Maybe just leave it exposed for now and see if there’s any water build up.

 

[duraleigh]

With all good humor, I am reminded of the adage, "If it ain't broke, keep on fixin' it until it is!"

 

[lasvegas1976]

Pressure test the return lines during your construction.

Why just that area is damp? You know our climate. Was this area damp in August?

You are probably more familiar with this topic than most, but when I started digging around that area, the soil was not getting any wetter or muddy as I got deeper.

What I did find was a lot of rock and a lot of caliche soil.

Being from my state, I assume you've come across caliche soil. I unfortunately have a lot of it in different areas of my lot. Caliche material is when the soil basically becomes like a rock hard cement and you need a heavy duty jackhammer to get through it at times.

On the other hand, it also provides poor drainage since the water is unable to get past the caliche and just sits around until it fully evaporates. I had a 12-foot Queen Palm die in another section of my lot, because it was planted right above caliche soil... eventually the roots more or less drowned from the sitting irrigation water... it wasn't able to drain. We had to take down the tree, jackhammer the entire area and then plant a new Queen Palm.

 

[lasvegas1976]

Pressure test the return lines during your construction.

Why just that area is damp? You know our climate. Was this area damp in August?

Nearly 24 hours ago, I added a thin cover of new chat - to monitor where the moisture would arise.

I didn't have enough chat for the whole section so I only added a thin coat to areas of where I dug.

So far, no new moisture marks.

I also show in the photo (with the X marking), that this section never gets sunlight. It's always shaded.

Those two pipes I found are appearing more likely to be irrigation related lines. I dug further and they go lower (in a straight line) and continue directly right under the pavers. May have been added to pass through irrigation lines without having to take the pavers apart each time (I have PVC lines like that in various areas of the property for irrigation and electrical lines for landscaping lights).

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah. They could be sleeves. But sleeves are typically a lot bigger diameter like 3” or 4” DWV pipe (drain/waste/vent). That looks like either water pipe or electrical conduit.

Sometimes builders use flexible thin walled PVC for 1/2” feeder lines to run around in the open areas and then, when they hit a wall or hardscape, they transition to hard SCH40 pvc pipe so that there won’t ever be a broken line under a wall. Perhaps those are old deprecated irrigation lines.

 

[lasvegas1976]

I called the top leak detection company out here to get his take. They helped me in the past and found a cracked pipe in the auto-fill line several years ago.

He basically said "I don't think there is much I can do for you right now. If you are not losing noticeable water and if your water bill is the same as last year, there is nothing any leak detection company can do for you. Right now, I would lean more towards an area with poor drainage than a leak."

He also said the fact that the soil is not getting any wetter as I dig (it's damp but no worse than what's on top), and there is no muddied up soil, would make him rule out a leak for the moment.

Not sure what to think at this point.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

All you can do is keep an eye on it. You could get some corrugated drainage pipe and temporarily bury it in the area and see if any water drains off over time. Usually you would wrap the pipe in fabric to keep the dirt out, but if it’s a temp install that doesn’t matter as much.

 

[lasvegas1976]

Good news and bad news.

The good news, getting close to finding the leak - being dug out as we speak.

I did the initial digging until I actually found some water and mud, now I have a two-man crew digging the area.

Currently not sure which pipe is leaking (there are several all close together), but I was told if it's the main line we have to drain out the entire pool to repair.

It doesn't appear to be a severe leak, as there is not exactly a big pool of water building. The diggers, who are plumbers, for the moment don't think it's some big crack.... they believe more likely to be heavy dripping. Seems to be worse when pump is on.

If the pool has to be drained out to repair, I will likely leave the leak alone for a few weeks - as the entire pool is being drained to get replastered at the end of January. At that point, someone can come back and easily fix the bad pipe since everything will already be dug up. I would do the fix now, but I don't believe it's wise to leave the pool drained for weeks (even longer once they start the replaster job) (open to suggestions if I should do otherwise)

My pool guy said if the pump is making the leak worse, then maybe I should turn the pump off until the replaster job or at the very least not use it on a daily basis or cut the hours down per day. Nobody swims now.

It's so frustrating that a minor leak, 20-25 feet away from the pool and nearly at the equipment, could only be fixed by draining out an entire pool (if the main drain line is the culprit)

 

[mknauss]

It would be odd if it is the main drain, and is worse when the pump is running. Suction side leaks do not normally leak worse when the pump is running.

 

[lasvegas1976]

It would be odd if it is the main drain, and is worse when the pump is running. Suction side leaks do not normally leak worse when the pump is running.

For now it's just a theory until they figure out which line is which. I could be wrong about it being worse when pump is on, just seems that way. Right now everything is off and I can hear something like a fizzing noise coming from the hole when I get my head close to it. Not sure what kind of a leak makes a noise like that, I would assume (but have no idea) if pool pipes make noise like that otherwise.

Out of curiosity, and depending on where the leak is, is there a temporary fix possible - just until the pool is drained in 4 weeks (rubber clamp, cement, etc)

 

[mknauss]

Depending on the leak type, a clamp or other seal may work.
The sound implies it is under pressure. Odd if the pump is off. No water lines in that area?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Since you are going to replaster and the pool will be out of commission, please have a qualified gas plumber look at that gas line. It’s not up to code. Flexible connections like that are typically not allowed in outdoor installations and there should be a drip leg on that line.

 

[lasvegas1976]

Depending on the leak type, a clamp or other seal may work.
The sound implies it is under pressure. Odd if the pump is off. No water lines in that area?

There are two smaller pipes there (and three or four much bigger ones). One of them I know for sure is the auto-fill. I have no idea what the other smaller pipe is (I assumed the skimmer line)

 

[JamesW]

What is the elevation of the pool relative to the equipment?

 

[mknauss]

There are two smaller pipes there (and three or four much bigger ones). One of them I know for sure is the auto-fill. I have no idea what the other smaller pipe is (I assumed the skimmer line)

Skimmer line would be a 2" line.

 

[lasvegas1976]

What is the elevation of the pool relative to the equipment?

The equipment is about 20-25 feet away from the pool. I believe the pool is in a tiny bit lower spot than the equipment, barely noticeable I think.

 

[JamesW]

No need to drain the pool to fix a leak.

Even if the line in the ground is below the water level in the pool, you can drain the pool a little bit or ball up some bread and make a temporary plug.

The bread will create a plug that will dissolve in an hour or two which will give you enough time to do any repairs.

When you restart the system the bread will get sucked into the pump or spit out of the returns depending on which line you plug.

 

[lasvegas1976]

What is the elevation of the pool relative to the equipment?

The equipment is about 20-25 feet away from the pool. I believe the pool is

Depending on the leak type, a clamp or other seal may work.
The sound implies it is under pressure. Odd if the pump is off. No water lines in that area?

Here is a photo. Those three smaller lines on top. The one in the middle I assumed was the skimmer. That darker one to the right has writing on it that says 'conduit' - not sure if it's electric line or what's in there to be honest. The smaller pipe to the left and going up is the auto-fill. I see a small drip coming from the soil under these pipes, not sure from which pipe as of yet, but the drip appears to happen when pump is on (although that fizzing noise was when pump is off, hard to hear when pump is on because of how loud it is)

 

[JamesW]

The bread plug sounds like a joke, but it really works.