CSI, CH, and my heater (and salt scale on surface)

[just4747]

Hi all - I need to raise my CH level a bit to be in range of my heater's reco (it's at 125 and it recommends 200-400). All other tests are currently in range except for high salt which I need to address.

I was going to add the appropriate Calcium Chloride to raise the level but I thought I had read to first check and fix CSI levels. I have a vinyl SWG pool so I know it is said that CSI doesn't matter for me, but I can't recall why or where I read the relation between CSI and CH and what I need to do first. Can anyone inform me?

Also, I went to check CSI but do not use borates or have test strips for borates - so not sure if I still need do need to test for borates or not considering I do not manually add them (otherwise do I just put zero for borates for CSI calculation?).

EDIT: I just remembered why I was looking into CSI at all. I have been seeing clearish flakes on the surface of my water in direct sunlight and had read that it's likely scale from my SWG. It said that if all else is in range then you probably need to fix/adjust CSI to fix that issue (if that's indeed what it is). I'm not sure if this would be due to a dirty SWG or something, or literally just the CSI itself causing this potential scale.

So in this case, should I then be worrying about CSI despite having vinyl? And if so, should I bother testing borates in order to get proper CSI level? Could the too high salt content be causing the flakes and not CSI (or both)? Salt strips are testing salt at 6300 and SWG wants 3400 - no idea how it got that high, I only added half a bag after the red salt light went on on the SWG a few weeks ago after it rained and I had to drain the pool a few inches.

Thanks.

 

[ajw22]

Hi all - I need to raise my CH level a bit to be in range of my heater's reco (it's at 125 and it recommends 200-400). All other tests are currently in range except for high salt which I need to address.

Raise your CH to the 200-250 ppm range.

I was going to add the appropriate Calcium Chloride to raise the level but I thought I had read to first check and fix CSI levels. I have a vinyl SWG pool so I know it is said that CSI doesn't matter for me, but I can't recall why or where I read the relation between CSI and CH and what I need to do first. Can anyone inform me?

With a vinyl liner pool CSI does not matter much to you.

Post a full set of your water chemistry with your CSI.

Also, I went to check CSI but do not use borates or have test strips for borates - so not sure if I still need do need to test for borates or not considering I do not manually add them (otherwise do I just put zero for borates for CSI calculation?).

Leave it blank of you don't use borates.

 

[proavia]

Adjust you CH to satisfy your heater requiements.

You should keep CSI in the 0.00 to -0.30 range to minimize scaling in your SWG.
Without a SWG, CSI monitoring isn't necessary in a vinyl liner pool.
You can do manage CSI by managing your TA and pH.
Set PoolMath for a CH of 250 and then play around with TA and pH to see how it affects CSI. Keeping TA in the 60-70 ppm range will help minimize pH rise. Many find a TA of 60-70 and a pH of 7.8-ish will keep CSI in range.

 

[just4747]

Raise your CH to the 200-250 ppm range.



With a vinyl liner pool CSI does not matter much to you.

Post a full set of your water chemistry with your CSI.



Leave it blank of you don't use borates.

Thanks but doesn't CSI matter with the flaking/scale I'm seeing? Or is this more likely because my salt level is almost double where it should be? (I added salt level to OP and below). Also salt was tested with AquaChek strips but everything else with TF-Pro).

Today's levels (and CC is .5ppm):

 

[mknauss]

It is very unlikely that with that pool water chemistry your SWCG is creating scale in it.

And if it is, it is shedding it and it is not an issue.

 

[just4747]

It is very unlikely that with that pool water chemistry your SWCG is creating scale in it.

And if it is, it is shedding it and it is not an issue.

Hmm interesting. I assumed it definitely had to be either the high salt or the CH being low causing scale (or something with CSI). Otherwise, I'm not sure what the frequent clear flake type stuff I'm seeing on the surface every day in direct sunlight actually is...

With my way too high salt level, do you recommend I take care of that before doing anything else or should I adjust the CH first (then fix anything that affects/changes next like FC), then CSI if needed at all, then worry about the salt?

And to do so, should I actually drain an entire 46% of the water (per Pool Math app) and replace before re-testing salt? If so, is it better to drain to waste or drain to backwash (and replace DE) for this, and then re-fill and check and adjust salt? Ugh, so many possibilities and options that can affect other things.

 

[mknauss]

If that is your actual salinity, technically, the IC would not generate. How did you get that salinity?

I see you have strips. Get a K1766 kit. I highly doubt that your salinity is anywhere near that level.

 

[just4747]

If that is your actual salinity, technically, the IC would not generate. How did you get that salinity?

I see you have strips. Get a K1766 kit. I highly doubt that your salinity is anywhere near that level.

I tested twice with two different AquaChek strips using water from a foot down, after I had read that the strips should be accurate enough (even compared to the test kit versions). I use TF-Pro for everything else FYI. Could the strips really be that off?
If so, I will get the additional reagents.

After rain 2 weeks ago, I had to drain a few inches off of my pool and the SWG low salt light went on, so I estimated and dumped half a bag of salt in and the next day when I turned the generator back on the salt level was good according to it. Before today, I haven't ever actually tested the salt levels manually as I had just been going off of the SWG lights.

Also mysteriously my FC has gone up 2ppm or more in the past week without me changing anything with chlorine. SWG has been set at 40%.

 

[mknauss]

Is the SALT light blinking Green?

 

[just4747]

Is the SALT light blinking Green?

Nope, solid green and has been as far as I know. Flow light also solid green and Cell light goes on and off periodically per the set cycle (I've had it set to 40% until today when I switched it to 20% after doing that salt test and after seeing my FC go up 2ppm mysteriously).

 

[mknauss]

Then the salinity is not higher than about 4500 ppm.

 

[just4747]

Then the salinity is not higher than about 4500 ppm.

Alright, I guess I will get the kit and test again. I know strips for the other tests are unreliable (first hand experience) but to think that the salt strips can be this far off for salt levels is ridiculous and disappointing to think about, especially if all instructions are followed. Why is everything in the pool world a scam or just idiotic (pool stores)? lol

Though this isn't the case in most threads I've read here - many people seem to get similar results with the strips so wondering why/how the would be SO off for me?? Definitely a bit confused.

I already have the TF-Pro, am I good to get the TF salt bundle for salt instead of the Taylor kit one to save a few bucks? Same thing right?:

 

[mknauss]

The kit from TFTestkits is great.

Not sure why the issue. At least we know the reagent drop based kit is accurate.

 

[ajw22]

If you continue getting scale from your SWG then adding borates may stabilize the CSI in the SWG cell...

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[just4747]

Adjust you CH to satisfy your heater requiements.

You should keep CSI in the 0.00 to -0.30 range to minimize scaling in your SWG.
Without a SWG, CSI monitoring isn't necessary in a vinyl liner pool.
You can do manage CSI by managing your TA and pH.
Set PoolMath for a CH of 250 and then play around with TA and pH to see how it affects CSI. Keeping TA in the 60-70 ppm range will help minimize pH rise. Many find a TA of 60-70 and a pH of 7.8-ish will keep CSI in range.

Just curious, if my TA and pH are already in range and slight tweaks won't change my CSI by much, can't I just rise CH even higher than 250...to say 300 or 350? My TA is 80 and my pH is about 7.8 now.

I did calculate what my CSI changes to if I go from 125 CH to 250 CH and it goes from -.62 to -.32, so very close to that range already, but just barely.

Thanks.

 

[just4747]

If you continue getting scale from your SWG then adding borates may stabilize the CSI in the SWG cell...

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I'm not entirely sure what I'm seeing is in fact scale, it just looks like it. But not quite sure how I even go about finding out definitively....

 

[ajw22]

What is the pH, TA and CH of your fill water?

 

[just4747]

What is the pH, TA and CH of your fill water?

Well I can check those levels in my tap/hose water (assuming that's what you mean) but other than rain, I'm not sure what water is currently in my pool as it was installed and filled in 2014 and we just moved in here last October. I know they originally had it filled by a pool company truck but that was 10 years ago so I'm sure that's irrelevant now.

 

[ajw22]

Well I can check those levels in my tap/hose water (assuming that's what you mean) but other than rain, I'm not sure what water is currently in my pool as it was installed and filled in 2014 and we just moved in here last October. I know they originally had it filled by a pool company truck but that was 10 years ago so I'm sure that's irrelevant now.

You will be adding fill water to the pool to compensate for evaporation during the summer.

Knowing the pH, TA, and CH gives us an idea which way your water chemistry will move when you add fill water.

 

[just4747]

You will be adding fill water to the pool to compensate for evaporation during the summer.

Knowing the pH, TA, and CH gives us an idea which way your water chemistry will move when you add fill water.

Just got these for my tap water:

pH 7.3
TA 30
CH 25

Thanks.