Critique this PB Quote - Thanks!

[gnr5]

Hi,

After few weeks of going back and forth this looks to be really close to what we're looking for, please critique or if you see a red flag I'm not seeing, please let me know.

 

[ajw22]

Some thoughts:

- vacuum line is the worst type of cleaner. Either get a robot cleaner or put a pressure cleaner line in with a boost pump.
- C150S filter is too small. Get a larger filter that you will have to clean less often. C3030 or C4030 filter. For some reason Fl builders like to put in small filters. When you have an algae problem you will be happy to have the big filter that will clog less often.
- Their water test kit, vacuum head & hose are worthless. Plan to get one of our recommended test kits - TF-100 Test Kits or Taylor K-2006C.
- Final instructions to owner - Hahahha
- I always prefer two skimmer plus a main drain. That ensures one skimmer can get clogged without starving your pump of water. Where are the prevailing winds? Skimmers should be placed in the two most likely wind directions.
- You need at least one GFCI convenience outlet.
- Any pool automation controller? Wireless control?
- What type of valves will be used? All never lube diverter valves?
- Are tile allowances adequate for your plans?
- Features - 1 Foam Bubbler? What and where is that?
- Where will the pool equipment pad be located?
- What size will the equipment pad be?
- put a light over the equipment pad.
- All electrical costs included?
- All equipment on dedicated GFCI CBs?

 

[gnr5]

Hello thanks for your reply, no spa, is just a tanning ledge with a bubbler.

 

[ajw22]

Hello thanks for your reply, no spa, is just a tanning ledge with a bubbler.

OK, I saw all the Spa stuff listed on the quote. Very confusing.

I edited my comments above.

 

[gnr5]

Thanks!

1. Should I just remove the vacuum line altogether and go with a robot? Might save some money from the PB.
2. Will bring up the filter
3. Two skimmers was my preference as well, after checking out most of my neighbor's pools and about 5-6 PB's quote, everyone claimed to have only one skimmer. So I decided to spend the money on a bubbler instead.
4. Automation is via the Tri-Star VS 900.
5. Valves, will need to bring this up.
6. Pad will be oversized as I plan to add a heater later on.

Some thoughts:

- vacuum line is the worst type of cleaner. Either get a robot cleaner or put a pressure cleaner line in with a boost pump.
- C150S filter is too small. Get a larger filter that you will have to clean less often. C3030 or C4030 filter. For some reason Fl builders like to put in small filters. When you have an algae problem you will be happy to have the big filter that will clog less often.
- Their water test kit, vacuum head & hose are worthless. Plan to get one of our recommended test kits - TF-100 Test Kits or Taylor K-2006C.
- Final instructions to owner - Hahahha
- I always prefer two skimmer plus a main drain. That ensures one skimmer can get clogged without starving your pump of water. Where are the prevailing winds? Skimmers should be placed in the two most likely wind directions.
- You need at least one GFCI convenience outlet.
- Any pool automation controller? Wireless control?
- What type of valves will be used? All never lube diverter valves?
- Are tile allowances adequate for your plans?
- Features - 1 Foam Bubbler? What and where is that?
- Where will the pool equipment pad be located?
- What size will the equipment pad be?
- put a light over the equipment pad.
- All electrical costs included?
- All equipment on dedicated GFCI CBs?

 

[mknauss]

Without automation how do you plan to control the SWCG? Remember, the SWCG must not have power to it without water flow through it.

Also; the AQR 925 is on the edge of small for your pool in Florida. I would suggest you get the 945.

 

[smracing]

Many people including myself use a suction cleaner. I prefer it over a robot that has to be removed all the time.

 

[gnr5]

Without automation how do you plan to control the SWCG? Remember, the SWCG must not have power to it without water flow through it.

Also; the AQR 925 is on the edge of small for your pool in Florida. I would suggest you get the 945.

The quote has automation

 

[mknauss]

The quote has automation

great.

 

[ajw22]

The quote has automation

How? Tristar VS only controls pump run times and speeds. What is going to control when SWG is powered?

 

[ajw22]

Thanks!

1. Should I just remove the vacuum line altogether and go with a robot? Might save some money from the PB.
2. Will bring up the filter
3. Two skimmers was my preference as well, after checking out most of my neighbor's pools and about 5-6 PB's quote, everyone claimed to have only one skimmer. So I decided to spend the money on a bubbler instead.
4. Automation is via the Tri-Star VS 900.
5. Valves, will need to bring this up.
6. Pad will be oversized as I plan to add a heater later on.

1. Yes
3. So you will accept the same sub-optimal skimming as others in your area
4. That is not automation
6. If you intend to have heater you need to rethink your level of automation unless you are okay going out to the pool pad to turn heat on/off, adjust temperature, or adjust SWG output.

Make sure your electrical is sized for the planned heater.

 

[gnr5]

1. Yes
3. So you will accept the same sub-optimal skimming as others in your area
4. That is not automation
6. If you intend to have heater you need to rethink your level of automation unless you are okay going out to the pool pad to turn heat on/off, adjust temperature, or adjust SWG output.

Make sure your electrical is sized for the planned heater.

This is NOT automation?

Home

Hayward offers environmentally responsible, cutting-edge pool and spa equipment for residential and commercial, in-ground and above-ground pools.

www.hayward-pool.com

 

[ajw22]

This is NOT automation?

Home

Hayward offers environmentally responsible, cutting-edge pool and spa equipment for residential and commercial, in-ground and above-ground pools.

www.hayward-pool.com

While that webpage talks about automation, there are no manuals describing the installation or operation of the automation.

This TriStar VS900 Omni manual only shows a pump installation. https://hayward-pool-assets.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/vs-omni-manual.pdf?fromCDN=true

And the price looks too low for a VS Pump and automation. So I don’t know what you are getting.

 

[ajw22]

I found this page describing what you are likely getting ...

VS Omni® Variable-Speed Pumps with Smart Pool Control | Hayward Residential and Commercial Pool Products

VS Omni variable-speed pool pumps are the easiest, most affordable way to add smart control to existing pools and spas. This pool pump integrates seamlessly with most brands and can control virtually every kind of pool and spa equipment.

www.hayward-pool.com

This is basic automation. What it does not include is an electrical subpanel/load center. You need to know how the electrical panel will be done with spare capacity for a future heater.

Will your heater be gas or a heat pump?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Your pool is a bit small for actual swimming... just tossing that out there in case anyone wants to get some exercise?

The depth is far too shallow in that end.... I'd suggest going 4' to 5.5' WATER depth, not pool wall height. Its important to be specific with that just so there are no disappointing surprises down the road.

Maddie

 

[gnr5]

So I e-mailed the PB last night with the following questions:

1. What type of electrical sub-panel will be used? I'm looking to see if it can hold a heater in the future.
2. What type of valves?
3. Can we oversize the equipment concrete pad for a possible heater later on?

He responded with this:

I'm not sure what you mean by what type of sub-panel. If you wanted to be prewired for a heat pump the cost is $550. We use a generic Jandy valve. Heat pumps come w/ a pad but yes we could make the pad bigger.

I'm getting a little uneasy, is it just me?

1. Yes
3. So you will accept the same sub-optimal skimming as others in your area
4. That is not automation
6. If you intend to have heater you need to rethink your level of automation unless you are okay going out to the pool pad to turn heat on/off, adjust temperature, or adjust SWG output.

Make sure your electrical is sized for the planned heater.

Your pool is a bit small for actual swimming... just tossing that out there in case anyone wants to get some exercise?
The depth is far too shallow in that end.... I'd suggest going 4' to 5.5' WATER depth, not pool wall height. Its important to be specific with that just so there are no disappointing surprises down the road.
Maddie

Thanks, I have to double check the depth, and yes this is very much a recreational pool for the kids. My yard is really not that big to begin with.

 

[ajw22]

So I e-mailed the PB last night with the following questions:

1. What type of electrical sub-panel will be used? I'm looking to see if it can hold a heater in the future.
2. What type of valves?
3. Can we oversize the equipment concrete pad for a possible heater later on?

He responded with this:

Let's discuss these individually:

I'm not sure what you mean by what type of sub-panel. If you wanted to be prewired for a heat pump the cost is $550.

Problem sometimes is the PB subcontracts the electrical and has no clue about it. Questions you should ask of whoever is doing the electrical:

- Are you getting a subpanel by the equipment pad or are they wiring equipment directly to your main electrical panel?
- How many amps will feed the subpanel?
- Will each device be on a dedicated GFCI CB?
- Will a 120V GFCI convenience outlet be installed by the equipment pad?
- Will a 120V GFCI outlet be installed by the pool?
- Will a light be placed over the equipment pad?
- Will there be an extra 50 amp 220V breaker reserved for the HP?

You should ask the PB why he is not proposing the TriStar VS pump with an AquaPlus or Prologic automation system? The AquaPlus bundles together the automation controls, the load center that is a subpanel, and the Aquarite cell.

The OmniHub Smart Pool and Spa Control that is in the bundle he proposed is more often used to retrofit automation to existing pools that already have a separate electrical subpanel.

I think the AquaPlus or ProLogic is more appropriate for a new build.

We use a generic Jandy valve.

The term "generic" causes me concern. Jandy Never Lube valves are the gold standard. They are also easily maintainable with parts available. Hayward and Pentair also have good quality diverter valves. I don't know why he would not say specifically what valves he will use if it is from one of the three. You want diverter vales and not ball valves.

Heat pumps come w/ a pad but yes we could make the pad bigger.

So is he not giving you a poured concrete equipment pad with the pipes coming up along side the concrete pad? Concrete or stone pads last a long time. Often builders use some type of composite or plastic resin pad under the equipment that eventually breaks down.

 

[sktn77a]

The depth is far too shallow in that end.... I'd suggest going 4' to 5.5' WATER depth, not pool wall height. Its important to be specific with that just so there are no disappointing surprises down the road.

I would echo this. 3' is too shallow at the shallow end for swimming laps and is still too deep for little kids (I presume they would always be adult supervised). I'd get minimum of 3'6" WATER depth (not POOL depth, where you usually lose 6") - the little kids will grow into it in no time.

Otherwise, looks pretty reasonable, cost wise.

 

[Bvacchiano]

Many people including myself use a suction cleaner. I prefer it over a robot that has to be removed all the time.

Agreed. My Pentair Racer works great. No issues and I can leave in the pool.

 

[gnr5]

@ajw22 thanks for all your responses. It looks like you're right in the sense that the salesperson has no idea how the electrical will be done. I'm not an electrician, so to be fair, I don't understand much about it either.

My original plan was to go OB to save some money, but my lack of construction knowledge makes me nervous. Plus having a PB puts all the liability on them.

I'm thinking of letting the PB build the pool without automation or heater, just basic and I can do the upgrades on my own later on (and maybe at a cheaper rate than the PB). Is this reasonable? That way I save some money on upgrades and wouldn't have to deal with OB altogether.