Critique My Design

[Copperhed51]

Hi all, I had planned to start this project sooner, but life got in the way. I’m back to working on pool designs and would love to hear feedback and pointers.

Specifically, I’m unsure of what to do with the steps. Should I move them and extend them off the baja deck or do people find that jumping off the baja is more fun? I’m young enough that I have another couple decades of jumping in my future (I hope).

Also, I can’t decide on equipment location. Our master bedroom wall or the back corner are the two main options because utilities are on that side of the property.

Finally, I’m thinking I should have 2 skimmers for a pool this size, but I’m unsure on location. Could I get pointers on lighting, skimmers, auto-fill, depths, bubblers, and any other things that just don’t look right?

Thank you!!!

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[jaymantx]

This is just a suggestion, but seems like your house is very symmetrical. Perhaps, symmetrical pool design might look better with the house. Have you thought about putting the spa in the middle closer to the house?

For skimmer location, figure out if wind blows in one direction consistently in your backyard. Then, put the skimmer on the side of the pool where wind would blow the water towards to. I didn’t know this trick, and of course my PB put two skimmers on the sides that wind blows away from. On some days, I have a collection of dead bugs and leaves floating on the opposite corner of where skimmers are at.

For lighting, I would recommend two for the main pool, one small one for the sun deck and one for the spa. All pointing away from home if possible.

 

[Dirk]

No pool without auto fill for me. Overflow control, too. I use this: Pool Water Leveler By PoolMiser | The Original Pool Spa Water Leveler

Plumb to run soft water to your auto filler.

All your lights should be on the house side of the pool, shining away from the house and your sitting/entertaining areas. You won't like lights that can shine into your eyes.

Plan your steps for old people and kids, as much or more than for you. A removable handrail (which you can break out for me and my cronies when we visit) is a thought. Hard to add later.

My pad is on the same side of my house as my bedroom. I can hear a faint whine from the pump which bugs me. It's a very quiet VS pump, but I'm somewhat sensitive in that frequency range, I guess. If yours ends up in the back corner, run two pipes for a roof top solar heater. PVC is cheap. Adding them later won't be.

I would not want a pool without a deep end. 8' or more. I don't have use for a sports pool, whatever that is. I think we'd play volleyball twice. I like to dive into my pool to enter it, swoop down low. My kids spend a large amount of time using the jumping rock. More than they would playing basketball, I know for sure. I believe sports pools to be a fad. Now if they came up with a couch pool, I'm in!!

5' is the minimum pathway I would want around the entire pool. More if I had room.

I'd include a suction port whether I was going to have a robot or not. It can be converted to a pressure port, and so covers all your bases for cleaners.

I would want each return and skimmer plumbed separately to the pad, each with their own valve.

No drains in the main pool.

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jaymantx snuck in there first! I don't agree about the spa location. If it's raised, it shouldn't be placed where it would obstruct your view of the bottom of the pool, especially if you have kids. You want to be able to see where everybody is all the time.

 

[Copperhed51]

This is just a suggestion, but seems like your house is very symmetrical. Perhaps, symmetrical pool design might look better with the house. Have you thought about putting the spa in the middle closer to the house?

Great pointers so far. The issue with putting the spa centered and closer to the house is we plan to have a pergola extend off the patio. Our patio is way too small to be useful as it is now. Others in our neighborhood have extended theirs and we love how useful the space becomes. If it weren’t for that plan, then I’d be all for that idea. Maybe it can still be done and be partially covered by the pergola without taking up too much useful space? That’s a thought.

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Also, no kids in the house, but you never know.

 

[Dirk]

Friends have kids. And if they're like mine, they won't be watching their kids. You'll be on nervous-wreck duty, along with having to cook for and serve the lazy bunch. I have to watch the BBQ and the pool. Don't put the spa in the way. You've already got it in a good spot.

+1 on the pergola. My crew crowds in under mine, at the table I have there. We sit and eat and drink and watch others in the pool. It'll be entertainment center. Use a solid roof, none of those stupid 2x2 partial shade designs. You want it sun proof and rain proof.

 

[Copperhed51]

No drains in the main pool

Can you elaborate on this? I didn’t even realize you could build a pool without a main drain at the bottom.

I’ve read plenty on in-floor cleaners, so I’ll leave that debate alone, but if we were to opt for that, I assume a main drain would be required, no?

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Friends have kids. And if they're like mine, they won't be watching their kids. You'll be on nervous-wreck duty, along with having to cook for and serve the lazy bunch. I have to watch the BBQ and the pool. Don't put the spa in the way. You've already got it in a good spot.

+1 on the pergola. My crew crowds in under mine, at the table I have there. We sit and eat and drink and watch others in the pool. It'll be entertainment center. Use a solid roof, none of those stupid 2x2 partial shade designs. You want it sun proof and rain proof.

Great points. We plan on a solid roof and a ceiling fan.. We need all the shade we can get here in AZ. May add a misting system to the pergola down the road as well.

 

[Dirk]

Don't even think about an in-floor cleaning system. Drains are old school, throw-backs to when there were no automatic cleaners. They're not needed for draining a pool, and they're not needed, or even very good, for circulating one. Skimmer and returns do the circulating. Vacs or robots do the cleaning (and circulating, too). And toss-in pumps do the draining, the one or two times you'll ever need to.

On the other hand, drains don't look very good, can interfere with cleaners, do interfere with brushing, and can trip up toes (especially if you go sports pool). While it is now law that very safe drain covers be used (old style drains were an entrapment/drowning issue), I am a believer that no drains is still safer than any drains. (I'm in the minority on that.)

It's also one less thing to fail (and one that would otherwise be buried under a giant concrete bowl of water!).

The opposing view is that a drain, when properly configured, can be set up to protect your pump should the pool leak or water level otherwise drop below the skimmer openings (starving the pump of water). I cannot argue that. The risk, in my mind, is quite small, especially if the water level is protected by an auto filler (though the auto filler could fail). I think a lot would have to go wrong: pool starts leaking and auto filler fails and you stop paying attention to your pool (or are on vacation for a few days), all at the same time...

I had drains, I had them removed. Don't miss them. I have auto fill, and my pool doesn't leak. I keep an eye on my pool every day, so I made the right choice for me. More and more pools are being built without drains. Many builders still insist on them.

 

[Dirk]

We plan on a solid roof and a ceiling fan.. We need all the shade we can get here in AZ. May add a misting system to the pergola down the road as well.

Ceiling fan: yes!
Mister: yes!
I have two ways to light the area (flood and center light), I wish I had a third (bistro or softer LED strands, something subtle). Lots of plugs. Lots of lighting. Go crazy. Make it super comfortable. I even have a bottle opener screwed to one of the posts! (Before I realized I can't serve bottles at a pool! Duh!!)

The one mistake I made, fortunately easily correctable: I pointed the stereo speakers at the table, mounted on the house. Nobody likes that. I have to turn them down so low, so everybody can chit chat, that I can't hear the music at the pool. I need to move them outward and mount them on the outside edge of the structure, pointing at the pool. That way I'll be able to turn them up, but not blast the table.

Mine has a roll down shade, to block the sun when it's low enough to slant in.

Speaking of which: between the roofing material and the framing, I installed a flat metal strap that provides shear strength to the structure. I have a shade sail mounted off of one corner, which spans over a small portion of the pool. The shade sail is tensioned to keep if from flapping around. The strap transfers that force to the house, instead of pulling the structure out of square. Mine is just a sheet metal roof, so that kind of force would have eventually compromised the metal's mounting screw penetrations. Point being, even while in the pool, I need a little relief from the sun. I use a shade sail for that. I'm anti-umbrella for that purpose. The sail needs mounting points that need to be strong. Something to plan for in advance if you're interested. If you are, I can dig up another thread about how I did mine...

https://shadesails.com

 

[Dirk]

Coincidentally, the thread in which I described my sail install was just updated, so it popped up in my subscribed threads list just now. I would have been hard-pressed to find it for you, had you asked, so before I forget again, here it is. It's got some thoughts about shade sails and how to mount them:

Shade Sail

 

[jaymantx]

HAHA! Yes, yes. My suggestion would block the view of the pool. Pure design sense and the practicality and safety are world apart sometimes.

jaymantx snuck in there first! I don't agree about the spa location. If it's raised, it shouldn't be placed where it would obstruct your view of the bottom of the pool, especially if you have kids. You want to be able to see where everybody is all the time.

 

[Copperhed51]

Coincidentally, the thread in which I described my sail install was just updated, so it popped up in my subscribed threads list just now. I would have been hard-pressed to find it for you, had you asked, so before I forget again, here it is. It's got some thoughts about shade sails and how to mount them:

Shade Sail

I would LOVE to have a sail shade over a portion of the pool. Unfortunately, the HOA disagrees. No sail shades are allowed in our yards.

On another note, does anybody have a ballpark figure for pooleng engineering plans to be drawn up? Also, any good ways to get an automatic door closer on a 16’ multi-slide door? Queen Creek requires an auto closer, but I haven’t seen any designs that are any good and allow the entire door to be opened, if desired. I’m thinking I’m going to have to put a gate up across the patio to keep the neighbors’ kids alive, which will totally ruin the aesthetic of the project.

 

[Copperhed51]

Alright, I have tweaked the design a bit here and there and I think I’m nearly ready to send the plans off to engineering. BUT,
how many returns do I need and where do you folks recommend they be placed? What can I do on the baja deck to keep it from getting dirtier than the rest of the pool? Returns and/or bubblers up there? Thanks!

 

[Dirk]

I've never had a pool built, but if I was hiring an engineer for the plans, I'd expect him to know about return placement, how many, and how to best keep a baja deck clean. But never having dealt with one, I don't actually know what their purview is. That'd be something to ask of them in the engineer "interview" process...

 

[Copperhed51]

I've never had a pool built, but if I was hiring an engineer for the plans, I'd expect him to know about return placement, how many, and how to best keep a baja deck clean. But never having dealt with one, I don't actually know what their purview is. That'd be something to ask of them in the engineer "interview" process...

I agree and I imagine they will have suggestions on it. I’m just hoping to be informed when I discuss it with them. Every time I look at the design, it seems like there’s another thing that comes up that requires extensive reading and research. It’s a fun process so far!

 

[Dirk]

Very smart to be up on all this stuff first. If I had to guess, I'd say return placement is based in large part by skimmer placement. The returns drive the water to the skimmers. So be prepared with prevalent wind patterns in your yard (as mentioned in #2 above), to determine where the skimmer(s) should be:

- check weather websites for local wind patterns throughout the year (they generally keep historical weather data).

- throw a beach ball out in the yard, see where it ends up each day, for some number of days

- where do you notice crud in your yard tends to end up (trash, leaves, etc.)?

You want the skimmer at the end of your pool where the wind will blow the crud. You want the returns to circulate the water towards or past the skimmer opening(s).