Critique my Build

[Smallyardsmallpool]

Critique My Bid/Design

Hello everyone,

Any suggestions or critiques to the bid or design would be very much appreciated!

Currently I’m thinking of saying no to the water feature, going with spray decking, and getting the robot cleaner through Marina’s.

This would put the final number at $93,295.

The 2D model is my own work, so the measurements may be slightly off what the builder has listed. The builder and I used landmarks such as the edge of the existing patio and edge of specific windows to set our patio edges and water lines, so the measurements should be pretty close to accurate.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP
I like the L design around the patio. Very unique and it provides a nice swim lane.
All of your equipment looks good. Couple of comments
No need for the Inline Chlorinator if you are going with Salt. If you ever need to use pucks (dead of Houston winter) then put in a floater or just use liquid chlorine. The inline chlorinator just crowds up the equipment pad for little to no value.
The automation states with Salt, but no SWCG (saltwater chlorine generator) is listed. We recommend sizing the SWCG to be 2x your pool volume. So you should be asking for the IntelliChlor 40 (IC40) - not sure of your exact volume but this would be good for a 15-20k gal pool
Some other things not listed
Suggest you have 2 skimmers and have each plumbed back to the equipment pad as independent lines
Use only diverter valves on the equipment pad (made by Pentair or Jandy)

You will like Wet Edge. Just ensure the PB is an authorized applicator of it. You can go on Wet Edge website for list of companies. This ensures your warranty on the plaster which should be minimum 10 yrs.

 

[Jimrahbe]

SYSP,

Have you ever been in a gunite spa before? If you have and loved, then go for it..

But, it you have never been in a gunite spa, you really, really need to try one before you buy one. About half of all spas are not use after the initial fun wears off. Integrated spas are the most costly and most under used items in a pool build. It costs the same if you use it or not, so it is important that you know for sure it will be used, before buying one.

The EasyTouch and ScreenLogic will do everything you want, but, they are now obsolete, so it would make more sense to go with the new IntelliCenter which is just about the same cost and includes a built-in ScreenLogic like system.

You should have two Skimmers and at least 4 returns.

Do not let them install an IC20, you want the IC40. The bigger the cell the less you have to run it to produce the chlorine your pool will need.

Great pumps...

Great filter...

I too would remove the tab feeder as it will just restrict the flow and serve not useful purpose.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

The two above me covered everything I was going to say! So "what they said" LO

I LOVE the design! What a great use of the yard!

Kim

 

[NCMike]

SYSP,

Have you ever been in a gunite spa before? If you have and loved, then go for it..

But, it you have never been in a gunite spa, you really, really need to try one before you buy one. About half of all spas are not use after the initial fun wears off. Integrated spas are the most costly and most under used items in a pool build. It costs the same if you use it or not, so it is important that you know for sure it will be used, before buying one.

Id like to reiterate this! Pebble spas can be rough on the skin and sitting and sliding around in a pebble spa would not be comfortable for long. Wet Edge has a higher tier plaster call Primera Stone It is a polished pebble plaster that is smooth to the touch. It would be an additional cost above the signature series you have quoted but I would highly recommend it for at least the spa. We did out entire pool in it but it was a huge up charge.

 

[pjt]

Currently I’m thinking of saying no to the water feature, going with spray decking, and getting the robot cleaner through Marina’s.

What kind of water feature? This would be an area to possibly save money.

I would definitely recommend keeping the travertine deck. It looks much nicer than spray decking and doesn't cost that much more. You'll use the deck every day.

Get your robot from Marina.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I would definitely recommend keeping the travertine deck.

@pjt

I wish you had told me that before I built my pool...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Smallyardsmallpool]

No need for the Inline Chlorinator if you are going with Salt. If you ever need to use pucks (dead of Houston winter) then put in a floater or just use liquid chlorine. The inline chlorinator just crowds up the equipment pad for little to no value.
The automation states with Salt, but no SWCG (saltwater chlorine generator) is listed. We recommend sizing the SWCG to be 2x your pool volume. So you should be asking for the IntelliChlor 40 (IC40) - not sure of your exact volume but this would be good for a 15-20k gal pool
Some other things not listed
Suggest you have 2 skimmers and have each plumbed back to the equipment pad as independent lines
Use only diverter valves on the equipment pad (made by Pentair or Jandy)

SYSP,

Have you ever been in a gunite spa before? If you have and loved, then go for it..

But, it you have never been in a gunite spa, you really, really need to try one before you buy one. About half of all spas are not use after the initial fun wears off. Integrated spas are the most costly and most under used items in a pool build. It costs the same if you use it or not, so it is important that you know for sure it will be used, before buying one.

The EasyTouch and ScreenLogic will do everything you want, but, they are now obsolete, so it would make more sense to go with the new IntelliCenter which is just about the same cost and includes a built-in ScreenLogic like system.

You should have two Skimmers and at least 4 returns.

Thanks for the responses everyone! This forum is an incredible resource. I was really anxious going through the pool bidding process, but TFP guided me through it. Hopefully you guys can help me get through the final stretch with all this info.

Removing the inline chlorinator makes total sense and I'll tell the PB that I want the IC40.

Herman and Jim, you both suggested 2 skimmers each plumbed back to the equipment pad as independent lines. Jim you also suggested at least 4 returns. Can either of you elaborate as to why? I want to be informed about it when talking to the PB

Any specific reason for diverter valves?

I think the PB might be able to discount the EasyTouch/Screen Logic vs full price for the Intellicenter. How much better is the Intellicenter?

Regarding the spa Jim, this seems like a non-negotiable with my wife. I've talked to her about a stand alone spa vs a gunite spa, but I don't think she's going to budge on the issue unless you know of some other options that I haven't thought of. I'm open to any suggestions.

 

[HermanTX]

Herman and Jim, you both suggested 2 skimmers each plumbed back to the equipment pad as independent lines. Jim you also suggested at least 4 returns. Can either of you elaborate as to why? I want to be informed about it when talking to the PB

Skimmers are really important for clearing the surface area of the pool. Should one go bad, then you are stuck with a huge issue. Now they are pretty reliable so this risk is low. However the other reason for 2 is to account for varying wind conditions. Think about prevailing winds and where each should be placed. On your L design you may need one on both legs or maybe just 2 on the longer leg at different spots.
The reason for the independent plumbing is that you want to control the suction of each because all of us with 2 skimmers usually finds one skimmer pulls more then the other - most likely due to its position nearer the pump. Have each go back to the equipment pad and each should have a diverted valve on it to control the amount of suction. In general, the 2 skimmers provides you better control of your pools flow. It is a small cost upfront but pays dividends in the long term

4 returns ensures you have sufficient circulation throughout the pool. Look at 1 on each wall. Jim may have more info to add.

Any specific reason for diverter valves?

Diverted valves can be repaired. If the PB uses standard PVC ball valves, they will eventually get stuck or the handle breaks. The only way to fix is to cut it out of the pipework. A diverted valve can be repaired by removing the top and inserting new parts. Diverted valves are more expensive up front but again pays big dividends in the long term. Plus they are easy to adjust and control flow.

With regard to Wet Edge plaster. I have the Primera Stone finish and love it. I had mine done prior to COVID so it was a decent price. We absolutely love the smooth finish.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Regarding the spa Jim, this seems like a non-negotiable with my wife.

SYSP,

I fully understand... But you were looking at the total cost and a spa is about $20K, so I thought if you were on the fence about the spa it would make sense to eliminate it. If she starts to complain about the spa later, you can remind her what it cost..

The EasyTouch has Black and White alphanumeric 3" screen. The IntelliCenter has a larger color touch screen. The EasyTouch allows only 12 programs, while the IntelliCenter has a hundred programs. The list goes on and on, but you get the drift... Kind of like an old rotary dial phone vs. todays cell phone. They both make phone calls, but which do you want to have???

Herman fully covered your other questions..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Their is going to be a Surcharge condition for the rebar requirements on the pool wall that sits 3’ away from the house, you may want to have the PB personally sign the steel engineering plans to show he is aware of the requirements in case their is a problem in the future with the structure.

 

[phonedave]

Their is going to be a Surcharge condition for the rebar requirements on the pool wall that sits 3’ away from the house, you may want to have the PB personally sign the steel engineering plans to show he is aware of the requirements in case their is a problem in the future with the structure.

Yeah, and make sure that you review the electric code. You may have to bond some things, remove some receptacles, and possibly remove some light fixtures.

I cannot tell what is there from that sketch, but have your PB and perhaps a separate electrician review what needs to be done to have that pool pass electrical inspection.

Also, where are you planning on putting your equipment pad and heater ?

 

[Smallyardsmallpool]

Their is going to be a Surcharge condition for the rebar requirements on the pool wall that sits 3’ away from the house, you may want to have the PB personally sign the steel engineering plans to show he is aware of the requirements in case their is a problem in the future with the structure.

Yeah, and make sure that you review the electric code. You may have to bond some things, remove some receptacles, and possibly remove some light fixtures.

I cannot tell what is there from that sketch, but have your PB and perhaps a separate electrician review what needs to be done to have that pool pass electrical inspection.

Also, where are you planning on putting your equipment pad and heater ?

The pool builder already agreed to sign off on all requirements with the Engineer.

Why would light fixtures need to be removed/changed?

The equipment pad is currently planned to be placed on side yard on the left side of the house.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Why would light fixtures need to be removed/changed?

SYSP,

Because the life span of a color changing LED pool light is about 20 nanoseconds...

OK, not exactly true, but their failure rate is awful..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Smallyardsmallpool]

Just heard back from my PB. She said that that 2 separately plumbed skimmers are included with 5 returns as well as diverters on the pad are included.

She is charging me $100 for the in-line chlorinator and said it will be needed for the first 30 days until I can fully convert to salt. Is this worth pushing back on?

I was a bit disappointed with the cost she gave me to upgrade to the IntelliCenter. It’s $1350 for the upgrade, which I feel is way more than expected from the prices I see online. Is the IntelliCenter upgrade worth that much?

She quoted me ~$5k for the Primera stone upgrade for the whole pool and will get back to me if just doing the spa is possible. However, she said that I need to sign a waiver that they aren’t responsible for imperfections/discolorations that may start to appear in the finish of a pool cleaning service is not used.

 

[phonedave]

The pool builder already agreed to sign off on all requirements with the Engineer.

Why would light fixtures need to be removed/changed?

The equipment pad is currently planned to be placed on side yard on the left side of the house.

National Electric Code

Outlet receptacles for general use can be no closer than 20 feet from a pool or in-ground spa if they are not GFCI-protected, and no closer than 6 feet away if they are GFCI protected.

So if you have receptacles on your house that are closer than 6 feet to your proposed pool edge, they need to go.

In outdoor pool areas, luminaires, lighting outlets, and ceiling suspended (paddle) fans installed above the pool or the area extending 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of the pool shall be installed at a height not less than 3.7 m (12 ft) above the maximum water level of the pool.

Maximum water level is the level that water starts to overflow. Not sure if you have anything inside these distances. It looks like the centerline of your existing patio is just under 6.5' from the inside edge of your proposed pool. If you have a fan in the center of that patio, depending on how wide the fan housing is and how picky your electrical inspector is, it may have to be removed. Also if you have pot lights, or maybe lights on the the columns supporting the patio, those would need to go too. Unless somehow they are 12 feet in the air.

 

[Jimrahbe]

SYSP,

I have three saltwater pools and they all have EasyTouch systems, with IC40 salt cells, and IntelliFlo VS pumps. They all work great. If I were building a new pool, I'd want the new IntelliCenter, but the world will not end, if you end up with the EasyTouch. It is older, but it will do everything that most people want there automation system to do. I would not lose sleep over it.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[HermanTX]

Just heard back from my PB. She said that that 2 separately plumbed skimmers are included with 5 returns as well as diverters on the pad are included

Great.

She is charging me $100 for the in-line chlorinator and said it will be needed for the first 30 days until I can fully convert to salt. Is this worth pushing back on?

Tell the PB to use liquid chlorine the first 30 days. They want the chlorinator because they can just fill it up and walk away. You can achieve the same thing if you purchase a floater. See this is just 1 example.

Chlorine Floater

Floating Chemical Dispenser Large for 3" Tab

www.poolzoom.com

It just crowds your equipment pad and serves no useful purpose. One idea, if you are forced to keep it, ask the plumber to put unions on either side of it so you can remove it easily and insert a blank piece of PVC with mating unions.

However, she said that I need to sign a waiver that they aren’t responsible for imperfections/discolorations that may start to appear in the finish of a pool cleaning service is not used.

Is this just for the addition of Primera Stone or any plaster? This is a scare tactic, IMO, a pool cleaning service, in general, does not maintain a pool chemistry well enough if they only show up every 7 days. You will learn that during the swim season, testing daily or every 2nd day is required to ensure your pool water is balanced.