Matt that is a very solid plan.......I see where you are coming from........get the stains up then out but he must know what product (calling Jack's) will do it the best.
Kim:cat:
Kim:cat:
Copper Sulfate usage???
- Thread starter bwesson
- Start date
I concur..
if Jack's crack team can advise him on which product will lift those enormous stains and get them into solution, he can then drain, refill and start back from scratch with our TFP method. Great Plan!
Yip
if Jack's crack team can advise him on which product will lift those enormous stains and get them into solution, he can then drain, refill and start back from scratch with our TFP method. Great Plan!
Yip
Hi Guys.. Yeah, my copper test kit is in the mail and the kid at the Pool store gave me a few copper test strips and let me take a picture with my phone to compare the strips with until my kits arrive.. I spoke with Rick at Jack's Magic and he thinks we can lift the stains but may require a combination of processes. I'm running to a local pool store now to get the Jack's stain identification kit and see what reactions I get with the stain kit, then call him back and go from there... I'll update here, and I really appreciate all the help guys...
- May 23, 2015
- 25,705
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Glad to hear it. Please do keep this post updated with what you learn from Jacks Magic folks. It can be helpful to others in the future.
Update: So after using the the "Jack's Stain Identification" kit, got a instant positive reaction after Solution#2 "Copper and scale remover". The test area turned a beautiful great white as if brand new.. So now we know.. Jack's sent me the Stain Solution #2 Program.. I've ordered 15lbs of the Copper & Scale remover along with 2 bottles of the Jack's Blue stuff. I've picked up 4 gallons of Muriatic acid, 4 gallons of Clorox bleach, 4 boxes of Borax, and a 12lb bag of backing soda. Now it's time to READ to understand the BBB method.
This is what Copper Sulfate will do to your pool filters and equipment..
This is what Copper Sulfate will do to your pool filters and equipment..
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
Just a couple of newbie to newbie tips... You really need JoyfulNoise on this, so respect his request for not using all capital letters. Try bold or underline or emphasis words like "thoroughly"
Also, share your plan for chemical additions before actually adding them. JoyfulNoise will keep you on an effective and safe track to make your pool perfect.
Also, share your plan for chemical additions before actually adding them. JoyfulNoise will keep you on an effective and safe track to make your pool perfect.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,705
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Update: So after using the the "Jack's Stain Identification" kit, got a instant positive reaction after Solution#2 "Copper and scale remover". The test area turned a beautiful great white as if brand new.. So now we know.. Jack's sent me the Stain Solution #2 Program.. I've ordered 15lbs of the Copper & Scale remover along with 2 bottles of the Jack's Blue stuff. I've picked up 4 gallons of Muriatic acid, 4 gallons of Clorox bleach, 4 boxes of Borax, and a 12lb bag of backing soda. Now it's time to READ to understand the BBB method.
This is what Copper Sulfate will do to your pool filters and equipment..
Good to hear there's a fix for the stains.
So now onto the bigger question - when you remove all of that copper from your plaster, what's the plan for draining the pool?
The Jacks Magic products will certainly remove the stains but the copper goes back into the water (sequestered or not). You need to get the copper out of the water and the only way to do that is through exchange with fresh water.
So, if you dump your pool you need to know how to do it safely. First, plaster should never be exposed to dry air temperatures over 85F or you risk causing cracking. Also, you need to know how high your ground water is. If there is no ground water near the pool, then you can drain it. If you have ground water, well, then that's an entirely different issue and one we'll need to explore in greater detail.
For now, focus on fixing the stains and read through Pool School.
Oh I don't plan on adding anything until i run it by you guys... I've done enough damage to myself... :foot:
Yeah, the water will have to be drained and refilled. It's almost 100 degrees in Texas right now and my plaster is only 10 months old.. I believe I read in the operation manual that it takes up to 12 months to fully cure.. I'm really not sure what my options are yet. I will call the builder and see what they have to say about it too.
Yeah, the water will have to be drained and refilled. It's almost 100 degrees in Texas right now and my plaster is only 10 months old.. I believe I read in the operation manual that it takes up to 12 months to fully cure.. I'm really not sure what my options are yet. I will call the builder and see what they have to say about it too.
Update my friends: The Jack's magic copper and scale remover did the trick~! 3 days of treatment and all stains are lifted.. Pool is absolutely beautiful again! Rick at Jacks's did say that I would have to drain and refill to get the copper out of the water..
I spoke with the Pool builder and they said I'm OK to drain and refill the pool as long as the ground is very dry, other wise the shell will float up.. It's been zero rain here in Dallas for over a week so I'm ready to drain this guy and get that copper water out of here~! Any suggestions or remarks, ideas, advice before I move forward? I'll wait before I begin.. Also, the builder told me about the city rules about water disposal, however I'm fortunate to live next to a heavily wooded area with a BIG creek..
Shhhh...
Wish I could use the water to water my Lawn! Seems like such a waste of 15,000ga of water..
I spoke with the Pool builder and they said I'm OK to drain and refill the pool as long as the ground is very dry, other wise the shell will float up.. It's been zero rain here in Dallas for over a week so I'm ready to drain this guy and get that copper water out of here~! Any suggestions or remarks, ideas, advice before I move forward? I'll wait before I begin.. Also, the builder told me about the city rules about water disposal, however I'm fortunate to live next to a heavily wooded area with a BIG creek..
Shhhh...Wish I could use the water to water my Lawn! Seems like such a waste of 15,000ga of water..
- May 23, 2015
- 25,705
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Glad to hear Jacks Magic got you your pool back. What was the procedure you followed?
As for draining, you might want to drill a test well near the pool in that lawn area if possible (not sure what you'd need to do it though)?? See if you can find a water level.
Either way, I'd also recommend draining and refilling as fast as you can in the overnight hours when it's cooler. Dry hot air can cause the fresh plaster to dehydrate, shrink and crack. If you can, rent a high speed submersible pump (or two!) that is capable of moving a few thousand gallons of water per hour. Start draining late in the day and refill as fast as you can overnight. Two to three hoses from multiple spigots would work best. Heck, ask a neighbor if you can use their water too and pay them back for it. Time is critical when it comes to draining a pool.
As for draining, you might want to drill a test well near the pool in that lawn area if possible (not sure what you'd need to do it though)?? See if you can find a water level.
Either way, I'd also recommend draining and refilling as fast as you can in the overnight hours when it's cooler. Dry hot air can cause the fresh plaster to dehydrate, shrink and crack. If you can, rent a high speed submersible pump (or two!) that is capable of moving a few thousand gallons of water per hour. Start draining late in the day and refill as fast as you can overnight. Two to three hoses from multiple spigots would work best. Heck, ask a neighbor if you can use their water too and pay them back for it. Time is critical when it comes to draining a pool.
The sooner you do it the less chance you have of it causing more problems. SO glad it worked out for you!
OK, so time for the learning... Once I refill the pool with fresh tap water, what will I need to add right away? I've got 4 gallons of Clorox bleach, 4 boxes Borax, 12 lbs of baking Soda, and 4 gallons of Muratic acid. I got the FULL test kit.. I'm aware of the Pool Calculator so I'm guessing I test all the levels listed in the test kit and add as shown on the calculator results. is that a correct assumption? Anything I've missed that I will need to get the pool where I need it chemically? Thanks for all help..
You will need CYA, enough to reach 30ppm. If chlorine seems to be consumed too quickly with a CYA of 30 you can slowly bump it up to 50ppm. Use poolmath to determine how much CYA you will need.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,705
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
CYA and FC are your primary concerns. pH can be adjusted as needed but it will depend on your fill water. Please test your fill water NOW and we can better advise you. You will very likely not need any of the borax or baking soda. Stock up on some bleach and get enough granular stabilizer to be able to go all the way up to 50ppm.
Some people find it useful to get a water flow meter for their fill hoses to track pool volume. As long as you're confident in your water volume from the previous fill, then no need.
Some people find it useful to get a water flow meter for their fill hoses to track pool volume. As long as you're confident in your water volume from the previous fill, then no need.
Bwesson, glad to see the stains lifted.
Have you already drained?
If you haven't, you could consider the sheet method to keep that new plaster wet. This link, from about post 52 on, describes the process, other links, etc. - Totally up to you, but have a read and see what you think. The sheet would stop the fresh, copper-Free water from mixing with the old copper.
New User - Doing first drain - What do I need to know? - Page 3
Have you already drained?
If you haven't, you could consider the sheet method to keep that new plaster wet. This link, from about post 52 on, describes the process, other links, etc. - Totally up to you, but have a read and see what you think. The sheet would stop the fresh, copper-Free water from mixing with the old copper.
New User - Doing first drain - What do I need to know? - Page 3
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
You can also use your vacuum hose to speed up the draining. Hold one end down with a sock full of clean rocks in the deep end. Push all the rest of the hose hand over hand into the water to flood it. Put your hand over the end, take it to a low spot, take hand off, and siphon starts. I'm suggesting this in addition to the pump.
If your skimmers can be shut off and if you have a main drain, you can also use your pool pump. I can't see a signature with pool info? If you have a sand filter, set it to backwash for a while, and then just use waste. If it's cartridge, there would be a spigot plumbed in for draining. Not sure how much the DE ones can handle, but just thinking of getting rid of all the metal. When/if the pump starts to cavitate (wicked noise and air in the pump basket), turn it off.
If your skimmers can be shut off and if you have a main drain, you can also use your pool pump. I can't see a signature with pool info? If you have a sand filter, set it to backwash for a while, and then just use waste. If it's cartridge, there would be a spigot plumbed in for draining. Not sure how much the DE ones can handle, but just thinking of getting rid of all the metal. When/if the pump starts to cavitate (wicked noise and air in the pump basket), turn it off.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,705
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
One other question - how long did the stain removal process take? Your last post was 9 days ago on the 7/13. Did it take a full week?
Matt, It took a week to get the products in.. Was a total of 3 days treatment and all the stains were gone.
I started the Drain at 8pm Central time tonight and it’s almost empty right now 1am. My setup has the valves that I can drain with the Pump from the main bottom drain and close off all the skimmers and returns. It’s going fast.. As soon as it’s close to empty I’ll begin filling… Don’t want to leave it empty in heat of tomorrow..
I’ll test the new water in the morning and post results so you guys can advise.. Thanks everyone for the input..
I started the Drain at 8pm Central time tonight and it’s almost empty right now 1am. My setup has the valves that I can drain with the Pump from the main bottom drain and close off all the skimmers and returns. It’s going fast.. As soon as it’s close to empty I’ll begin filling… Don’t want to leave it empty in heat of tomorrow..
I’ll test the new water in the morning and post results so you guys can advise.. Thanks everyone for the input..