Converting from EcoSmarte to TFP

[chem geek]

It's a good sign that the TA is now up which means your pH is definitely above 4.5 at this point. If the pH still reads 6.8 (so it can be below that) then if your TA is already high enough you can just aerate the water and that should get your pH up. In fact, if your TA is getting close to 80 ppm you should find the pH getting above 6.8.

Since your CYA is low (around 20 ppm) you don't need to add very much chlorine and you should get your CYA level higher if your pool is exposed to sunlight. You can add both chlorine and CYA by using Dichlor or you can add them separately by using pure CYA (that dissolves slowly -- see the Pool School for adding it to a sock over a return flow) and chlorinating liquid or bleach.

 

[Laural663]

Thanks Chem geek
Yes the pool is exposed most of the day to direct sunlight.
I'll monitor the PH and TA again and work on the CYA.
Thanks again

 

[Laural663]

I got up this morning and my pool is cloudy. I am assuming it's from the soda wash I have added the last two days. There is no evidence of algae.
The PH has increased to 7.2 and the TA is at 50.
I got the stabilizer at lunch today. It's 100% cyanuric acid in granular form. Clorax brand at Wal-Mart.
PoolMath indicates I need to add about 69 ozs to raise it to 40.
You said to put in sock over the return. I tied it off to the safety rope anchor over the return.
I went back and read the directions on the bottle.
The directions say to add to the skimmer slowly and let circulate for 48 hrs.
I was worried about bleaching my new liner and moved the sock to the skimmer. That should be okay, right?
I also have a question about adding DE to the sand filter.
I have about half a bag of zeofiber.
Can I use it? instead of the DE for better filtration?
Should I go ahead and add bleach?
thanks

 

[chem geek]

The soda ash (or washing soda) temporarily clouds the pool and usually only when the pH, TA, and CH are near a calcium carbonate saturation level. With your low pH and TA I'm surprised you see clouding, but if it dissipates and clears then it was just the concentrated product.

If you were to add the CYA to the skimmer, then it would get caught in the filter and VERY slowly dissolve, taking up to a week. That's why I suggested the sock approach. It's faster. You can alternatively put it in a sock or T-shirt in the skimmer itself with the pump running IF you have other suction entry points such as floor drains or an equalizer suction pipe below the skimmer going into the pool. So yes, having the sock in the skimmer is fine. You wouldn't have bleached your liner with the sock over a return, but the skimmer is fine (with the caveats I noted).

I don't know about the zeofiber vs. DE. Someone else can answer that.

Yes, go ahead and add the bleach now that the CYA is dissolving. You want to get chlorine in the pool before algae starts to grow. By the way, algae may look cloudy before green so it's possible it's already started to grow, but with chlorine you should be able to kill it off quickly if that is the case. You'll see what your chlorine demand is like. If your chlorine isn't holding (especially overnight), then you may need to SLAM the pool to kill off algae if it got started.

At least your pH and TA are no longer in a dangerous place. Hopefully there wasn't too much damage done to the liner or equipment.

 

[Laural663]

Good Morning
Whoohooo! The water was clear this morning. I moved the sock to to the return and adding the bleach this morning.
Thank you!

 

[chem geek]

Great!

 

[Laural663]

I got home this afternoon and the pool was just sparkling.
I added 153 to 160 Ozs of bleach before I left for work.
I just checked the PH and Chlorine.
C - 0
PH - 7.2

With the chlorine being burned off in 14 hours does that mean I need to SLAM?
I'm going to use Pool Math and add more bleach tonight.

I have the return turned up to aerate the water hoping it will increase the PH.
Should I go ahead and add more washing soda?
Thanks

 

[jblizzle]

With low CYA, you will nearly always lose all the FC to the sun.

 

[chem geek]

Just add some more chlorine and keep the CYA dissolving in its sock. As the CYA gets higher, the chlorine should hold better. If it doesn't, then you could consider a SLAM, but see how the higher CYA does first.

 

[Laural663]

When I add the bleach to the water it turns brown until the bleach dissapates.
Is this normal?

Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks
I just added more based on Pool Math

 

[jblizzle]

That is a sign of high metals in the water. The local high pH pulls the metal out of solution.

 

[Laural663]

Thanks,
Well I guess that means my copper test kit is still good.
I have already replaced a significant amount of water last weekend.
I'll look for the sequestrant recommended on this site.
And forget about raising the PH for now.
Thankfully I don't have any stains yet.

Or is there a problem with leaving the PH a little lower than the recommended until I turn over the water back washing the filter? It is clear and I don't have any staining yet.

I have already spent over $800 since opening the pool in April with the EcoSmarte system trying to get it clear, and that doesn't count the cost of the water I replaced last weekend. ugggh!!!!!

 

[chem geek]

Yes, you can have the pH be on the lower side to help prevent metal staining or precipitation or coloring of the water.

With the copper from the EcoSmarte, you can remove that through water replacement, or use metal sequestrants ongoing, or use CuLator to remove the metal from the water. These all have different costs so it's up to you which to do (CuLator has had mixed results unless the company is contacted when the product isn't working).

 

[Laural663]

Thanks Chem Geek,
I'll leave the PH on the low side for now.
I'll go ahead and locate Jacks Magic Stuff in this area to be prepared.

I just thought of something, if my copper is .5, is that high enough to stain hair?
Thanks for all the help

 

[chem geek]

Yes it is, though it depends on the form of copper. See this paper for technical details, but the kind of copper from Ecosmarte would cause a problem (i.e. it's not copper citrate but free copper ions). However, if you use a metal sequestrant such as Jack's Magic then that should prevent the copper from turning blond hair green. Do you currently have this problem of blond hair turning greenish?

 

[Laural663]

No, but I'm not sure we have had any blondes in the pool since we installed the EcoSmarte.
Okay so I guess I'll use the Jacks Magic Stuff
Pool is still clear and sparkling
thanks Chem Geek