Convert to SWG. CircuPool RJ60 vs Pentair IC60 w/ Automation. Self Install

Yep, good plan. And sorry to be so doom and gloom. But better safe than sorry.

^^^My thoughts exactly!!^^^

I'm so glad that I read this whole thread at once, as opposed to in real time. I must admit that I cringed when OP was asked to remove the electrical service cover of an exterior subpanel (with no GFCI breaker), having already twice proclaimed his lack of electrical knowledge....... then no reply from OP for over 24 hours :shock:!

There were red flags before he took the cover off, that with his knowledge, experience and comfort level he should not have gone any further and advised to seek the advice of a licensed professional.

I fully support DIY and helping others through our shared experiences, but SAFETY MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST!!!


jsridley - Better to regret respecting your limits, than to regret overreaching them!

Good Luck and I hope you have a very happy, healthy baby to enjoy for many years to come!!!
 
I appreciate everyone's concern. I assure you I'm more than comfortable removing the cover of the electrical panel. I understand the need for caution and respect the advice given here.

I'll have someone come out and look at it. In the meantime I need to get a better understanding of what "bonding" is really required. Is it 100% certainty that I need to tear up concrete to get a bonding attachment to the rebar of the pool.

On an unrelated note (related to the original topic), I stumbled on a local individual selling a used Intelliflo 011018 pump for $350. Only a couple years old and replaced when their PB put in a Hayward automation system. Understand there's always risk buying a used item like this but seems like a good deal if I end up going with the automation and SWG down the line.
 
js

The 011018 is an excellent pump... You can buy it new for about $900 bucks.

I would offer $250... but $350 is not a bad deal.

Just makes sure it is the standard IntelliFlo, and not the one with SVRS option...

I would do a lot more research on bonding before I removed any decking..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I'll have someone come out and look at it. In the meantime I need to get a better understanding of what "bonding" is really required. Is it 100% certainty that I need to tear up concrete to get a bonding attachment to the rebar of the pool.

This brochure gives a good overview of what a complete bonding solution would be ... https://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent//burndy/documentation/BURNDY_Pool_and_Spa_Brochure.pdf the bottom of page 3 quotes some portions of the Electrical Code.

I don’t think you can easily comply with the NEC in a retrofit solution. If your pool is grandfathered in with your local codes then you need to work with someone to decide what is good enough bonding for personal safety.

There are bonding plates that can be put in the water. You can probably find places to access your deck rebar on the edges or drilling some holes. You can then bond together pool water, with the deck, and pool equipment. What you are missing is bonding to the gunnite rebar. I think that may be better than no bonding at all and good enough.
 
This is what I'm piecing together for myself (what I think I know!). I'm inviting others to contribute or correct...

Bonding isn't required to make your pool's electrical system work. There must be 10s of thousands of pools out there that were never bonded. Bonding comes into play when one or more components of your home's electrical system ceases to work properly. If some component of your pool becomes electrically charged, while another does not, and a person touches both at the same time, then that person's body becomes the electrical connection between the two. This could be experienced as a vague tingle, or it could be enough of a difference in electrical potential to cause a very serious shock, even death. If the two components are connected via a big, thick chunk of copper wire (bonded together), then the wire eliminates the difference in electrical potential, and the person's body is not subjected to it.

So, for example, if you bond only the electrical components at the pad, a difference in electrical potential could still exist between pool water and deck. If you manage to bond everything except the deck, same problem. Everything you can manage to bond together is going to be safer, but only if you're touching only those things. The potential for injury still exists while touching whatever you can't bond.

These differences in electrical potential can exist for several reasons when there is no bonding. A gizmo gone bad (or bad from the factory). Bad wiring. A gopher chewing through PVC conduit and encased wiring. A faulty GFI (it happens). Etc. One guy here had an SWG that was putting a small amount of current into his water. It was manufactured with this defect. He could feel it when he touched one side of his pool's decking, but not the other side. His wife and kid could feel it, but he could only feel it if he had a cut on his finger. So two things were wrong: the bonding was not done well enough, and the SWG had a flaw. Maybe you could go forever without ever having a problem. So far you haven't. Or maybe your pool light will spring a leak and somehow energize your pool water. In that scenario, you would have three things wrong. No bond. No GFI on the light. And the worn out pool light gasket.

So having your electrician fix as many things as possible is better than doing nothing. Way better. But unless you fix it all, you'll still have some potential dangers lurking.

And this is where I get a little fuzzy on the subject, so someone else can hopefully corroborate: your house and pool's electrical system could be perfect, but you could still have a problem without bonding because the electrical potential difference could emanate from somewhere else besides your house! What if the same "electrician" that wired your box (the previous "DIY" homeowner, no doubt), went next door to help out his neighbor, and created some other Frankenstein mess next door. So maybe his box is energizing the soil, or the fencing, or whatever. Your neighbor doesn't have a pool, so maybe he's never going to know about this issue. But you do have a pool, and electricity knows no property boundaries!

More doom and gloom. But you get the idea. Start with the panel. Get that cleaned up. Get the proper GFIs installed for your light and pump (I think they're both supposed to be GFI protected). Bond everything at the pad, then start diggin'! Do what you can. You might not have to tear apart all that much concrete. Is there a dirt path between pad and pool? Can you get that far with a bond wire? Can you burry a bond wire around the entire circumference of your pool, in landscaping beds? You can sneak wiring under a concrete walkway, that's pretty easy. Maybe from that ring of wire you can get from there to some of the rebar? Or the pool light housing? Or the skimmer, to bond your water? To be clear, I'm not suggesting how you retrofit the bonding of a pool. I don't know how to do that. I'm just suggesting that, with the help of a qualified pool electrician, where there's a will there's a way, and you might find you have a way...
 
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