Convert single speed pump to 2-speed?

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I see, so if I'm understanding you correctly the unique plumbing, although has a specific flow rate on a given pump with all factors considered, that flow rate changes when you switch pumps. Even though it may be in the same class of pump and so on.
More or less... at this point anyway.

I actually knew that, but got clouded by the fact that I "assumed" the manufacturers were using some sort of identical standard plumbing setup to test each pump. Hence they could be easily compared with one another because one could "assume" that the plumbing was all the same.
That figures that they wouldn't.... just like so many other things in other industries. Standards, schmandards. :brickwall:

Seeing as I have no clue what I'm doing and I'm still trying to learn, but not fast enough to make a good, educated, non-impulse or misdirected decision on what pump to buy.
Could you be so kind as to weigh in on your thoughts between the Hayward 1hp 2-speed & the Waterway 1hp 2-speed that I have landed on? Or maybe something better, if I have missed it, that's around $200-$230 bones delivered.
I thought the Waterway was better because its pump curve looked better. But I know now that it doesn't matter.
Are they about tomato, tomaat-oh?
As opposed to rebuilding my existing pump, being the cost will be a bit more in the end.
I'm leaning toward the Waterway as it has a 2yr warr (only 3-4mo of season time here) and draws less amperage by a bit on low and a decent bit on high, you know for vacuuming, backwashing, fast filtering from a heavy bather load, etc...
I presume, judging by the amperage ratings, the Waterway is using a 3/4hp motor, as opposed to the Hayward which is inline with the 1hp motor specs @ Century's(AO Smith) site. Does that seem right?
It's the smaller motor I want too, at least that's my understanding. Since you only need a big honker for water features, suction side cleaners and specialty needs. Not for daily filtration & vacuuming/backwashing needs. By the end of the summer or so it'll be going on an approx. 3.7-4.2 SQft filter on my 21,400-22,500 gal pool.


Mind you, I'm not giving up on this topic and throwing my hands up in disgust or anything. Quite the contrary. I still want to learn more about it, finish going through your materials and the like and continue learning. I don't want to become a pump expert, but I'd like to know & at least understand a fair amount about how it all works. At least enough to satisfy my desires to make sense of it all. :)
Hopefully enough in time for when I design the plumbing for the new pool.

PS. I did mean "putting a smaller impeller on a bigger motor", not "pump". I know the difference, just made a flub up was all. HAHA
I was thinking pump in my head, because I'm talking about the pump overall. My brain forgot to switch to "parts" mode. LOL

Thanks for all your help so far Mark! :cheers:
 
mas985 said:
I think you are making progress. Not only did you get my name right but I think you are grasping the concepts.
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Oh my goodness Mark, you are too funny sir. I had a good laugh, had to read it to my dad. Lol
Thanks for the words of encouragement. :D

mas985 said:
But as for choosing a pump, have you thought about this:

http://www.amazon.com/Intex-56671EG-650 ... ntex+pumps
Click to expand...

Wait, really? On a 27ft, 22k gal pool?
Maybe I'm missing something. :?
 
Ah, no worries mate! I figured, I need to add that to my Sig.

y_not said:
It's the smaller motor I want too, at least that's my understanding. Since you only need a big honker for water features, suction side cleaners and specialty needs. Not for daily filtration & vacuuming/backwashing needs. By the end of the summer or so it'll be going on an approx. 3.7-4.2 SQft filter on my 21,400-22,500 gal pool.
Click to expand...

The rest of the pump info as to what I'm looking at, is in my post at the top of pg2.
 
Both the Matrix and the Waterway are up rated pumps/motors. However, the Waterway is more like a waterfall pump with a low flat head curve while the Matrix has a steeper higher head loss curve. What this means is that the Waterway is probably going to be more efficient on lower head loss/larger plumbing while the Matrix might be better for higher head loss/smaller plumbing. Also, if you plan on having solar on a roof, the Matrix would probably be a better choice.

But will this pool be an above ground or an in ground?
 
AGP setup.
I may do solar in the future, in fact I'd love to. But it'll have to be on the ground, as the backyard is on the north side of the house and It's my understanding that the panels should face south for maximum sun exposure. South means the front of the house facing the street and I don't want that. It'll look funny I fear. My plan is to put the equipment pad quite close to the pool, so piping should be minimal. I will definitely be hard plumbing it and likely burying as much as possible so I can get down below the frost line, as it gets super cold here in winter.

The only other thing I want to add is a home made fountain for areation purposes when needed. Also possibly a home made fountain with lights, or a commercial one... depends. Nothing elaborate or the volume of a waterfall. Just a sprayer type.
 
Mark,

What are your thoughts on this one?
Waterway Supreme 3/4hp AGP Pump

According to this, it is the same amperage rating as the other Waterway.
power-consumption-of-2-spd-pump-measured-with-and-w-o-solar-t6077.html

It seems to have a stronger head curve, in fact, someone HERE said it's identical to the Hayward Powerflo Matrix. But this one comes in 3/4 HP. So I'm assuming its full rated, not up.
Manufacturer's Head Curve

I really appreciate you taking a look.
Thanks again for all of your help and knowledge! :mrgreen:
 
The Waterway and Matrix may look similar but performance is very different. The Waterway has a higher head curve which means it will probably use more energy and deliver higher flow rates.

Also, if it is the price that is attractive, you can find Hayward pumps for similar prices:

http://www.paradisepoolsupplies.com/Hay ... d-sp1580tl
 
mas985 said:
The Waterway and Matrix may look similar but performance is very different. The Waterway has a higher head curve which means it will probably use more energy and deliver higher flow rates.
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking a look Mark! :goodjob:

Upon 1st inspection, that made sense, for model# PSP2075-6. But then I kept thinking about the post I linked to where the TFP member measured the electrical draw /w a Kill-a-Watt meter, comparing it to the amp draw listed on the motor nameplate. The amps of which are 8.8/2.6a high/low rating, exactly the same as what Electric Motor Warehouse shows the rating is for the 1hp 2-spd Hi-Flo series that I 1st talked about. Which is Model# PH2075-6/PH2100-6. Both using the same motor I presume, since they're the same amps.

So then I called Waterway Plastics and spoke to a tech and he said the Hi-Flo/Supreme series both use the exact same motor, just a "more sophisticated wet end" on the Supreme series. He said they're both 8.8/2.6a @ 3/4hp, what their website shows as being higher on the Supreme pg. is incorrect he said.

So why would it draw more amps, bigger impeller that moves more water, thus more load on the motor?
Is the post I linked to where measurements were taken using the meter somehow incorrect? Those measurements seem plenty low enough for my tastes.

mas985 said:
Also, if it is the price that is attractive, you can find Hayward pumps for similar prices.
Click to expand...
Actually, no, the price isn't a huge deciding factor over the Hayward. They're all within the range of what I'm willing to spend atm. The real attractive aspect of Waterway is that they have a big skimmer basket, a 3yr wet head warr. and 2yr on the motor. That speaks volumes to me, living where I do and only having a 2-3mo, maybe sometimes 4mo at most on a good year, pool season. The rest of the time it'll likely be sitting, of course protected in some way, which I haven't decided on yet. I know, being an IT guy and repair tech of many things, that products love to die just outside of their warr. So getting one /w a warr. longer than 1yr is a bonus! Once they get past that, they usually live a long time, but these things are always a gamble though.

Is Paradise Pool a good company, have you or heard of others here that have bought from there with a good report?
 

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So why would it draw more amps, bigger impeller that moves more water, thus more load on the motor?
Is the post I linked to where measurements were taken using the meter somehow incorrect? Those measurements seem plenty low enough for my tastes.
Click to expand...
Yes, higher flow rates will nearly always draw more power. Also, it isn't that the measurements were wrong only that if you are comparing two pumps, the one with the lower head curve will nearly always use less power. However, if the other factors are more important, then that is what you should go with.

Also, keep in mind that the numbers on a motor label are maximum ratings, not operating points. A pump motor will usually draw less power than what is indicated on the label.
 
Have you ever purchased from Paradise Pool, or know of anyone who has?

I was all set to go with the 1hp hi-flo Waterway /w the flat head curve. But I'm sure we'll be doing solar by next year. So I felt it prudent to go with a pump that can handle that. I presume the Waterway Supreme will handle that just like the Hayward. Yeah?
 
Most IG pumps can handle solar but some AGPs can as well it depends on the height of the panels and the head loss in the rest of the plumbing. You just need to make sure that there is enough flow rate at fairly high levels of head so the panels are primed properly. My rule of thumb for a two story install is a minimum of 40 GPM at 50' of head. One story installations are 40 GPM at 40' of head.
 
Mark,

I saw you mentioned in another post somewhere on here that you can temporarily run a filter with a pump that's too big, by placing a restrictor valve on it and only opening it part way.

I'll need to run my much too high gpm Pentair Dynamo for about a week or so while I wait for the new pump and then get the time to hook it up.
What sort of valve is this and how do I adjust it to be under the max flow rate of the sand filter without a flow meter?

For the time being I'm just going to be using those flexi hoses that it came with. The one that goes from the pump to the filter is corrugated, but It's encased in clear vinyl. I'm not sure what that type is called. One end is open ended hose that attaches to the multiport valve with a hose clamp. The other end that attaches to the pump has a threaded hand tightened type nut on it. A union? I dunno. Sorry, I'm plumbing clueless. HAHA
 
Normally, AG pools have valves on both sides of the pump/filter so that the equipment can be isolated when cleaning the pump basket. You can use the return side valve to restrict the flow rate. Assuming the filter gauge is at water level, the filter pressure needs to be about 18 PSI to make sure you are below 40 GPM, if that is the target.
 
Thanks for the info Mark! :king:

Here's the info on the filter I have for the time being. Good for the little pool, I'll upgrade in time for the big pool.

It's a 150lb PacFab 1.8 SQft sand filter. It's max flow rate is 35GPM.

No valves came with the big pool that this grossly undersized filter came with. So I'll have to find something at the hardware store. Any ideas what do-dad to look for that'll either have already, or can be threaded into it a hose barb? If you know what I mean.
 
I really have no idea what your equipment looks like or what you have so it is hard to make a recommendation.
 
I'm going to go with the pump p/n that's pre-wired with a Twist-Lock connector.
This way I'll be up to code when I put it near the big pool at the end of the season.

In the meantime, I'll need a female wire in plug end for my extension cord so I can run it on the small pool. Yeah, it's hooked to a GFCI outdoor outlet.
I'll have to order this ahead of time, so it gets here when the pump does. Or I'll have to find it locally at a non-overinflated price. Unfortunately $25 for a plug is a little intense!!

The only problem is, I have no idea which NEMA Twist Lock plug standard they're using. I called the manufacturer and they don't know either. He said there's nothing on the plug end either.
He did say it has 2 round/circular prongs and an L shaped prong. I don't know if that narrows it down much, or if there's a pretty standard one that they use on these.

I'm doing one of these p/n's... not sure what the "90oR" or the "R" at the end denotes.
PSP2075-3
90oR PSP2075-3R

Any idea on the plug?
 
I found out what the "R" at the end of the P/N means.
At the bottom of the pg. for these pumps on the Waterway site, I see it says.
"Part numbers listed are for the discharge in the vertical position (sand). For discharge in horizontal position (cartridge and D.E.), add “R” to the end of the part number."
Totally missed that.

Kinda seems like a moot point, seeing as it states: "Wet end easily rotates".
Hrrmmm Probably for the "big boys" that need to do lots of installs & don't want to rotate the wet head around.
 
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