Considering a SWCG. Thoughts?

[Padle]

There’s no such thing as the calcium being too low for a swg.
Your ch may possibly be low for your plaster pool & ideal csi.

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

If that’s the case go ahead & use the cal hypo to chlorinate.
Not a problem - use PoolMath effects of additional to see how much it would take/you can tolerate before you reach your goal .
What are your most current test results?
Fc
Cc
Ph
Ta
Ch
Cya ?

Ok, it was listed here under water balance for SWG. But I guess it was just a statement that had nothing to do with a SWG Water Balance for SWGs

 

[PoolStored]

My calcium is currently to low for a SWG (it's just above 250).

Is there any harm is using cal-hypo until my calcium gets up there, then to switch to a SWG?

The only thing that is necessary for a SWCG to work is 1) water flow, 2) sufficient SALT levels in the pool, 3) water temperature over about 60 degrees and 4) electricity.

Make sure you get a salt test kit and test your water for salt before you add salt when you get a SWCG. Mine was about 1500 when I converted. If you don't test first, you can add too much salt.

 

[PoolStored]

Ok, it was listed here under water balance for SWG. But I guess it was just a statement that had nothing to do with a SWG Water Balance for SWGs

Yes, it is written in a way that makes it seem like it is for the SWCG. If you note, Vinyl doesn't need any (while is says 50). The only reason for CH is for the plaster.

 

[Padle]

The only thing that is necessary for a SWCG to work is 1) water flow, 2) sufficient SALT levels in the pool, 3) water temperature over about 60 degrees and 4) electricity.

Make sure you get a salt test kit and test your water for salt before you add salt when you get a SWCG. Mine was about 1500 when I converted. If you don't test first, you can add too much salt.

Thanks! I have the TF-PRO salt so when I'm ready, I can test.

 

[Padle]

Considering I don't need to raise the CH for a SWG, and considering cal-hypo is super expensive, it seems cheaper to just get the swg, than raise the calcium some other way.


I'm seriously considering the universal 55. Over time RJ+-60 would be better value, but it would take a long time.

The only cool thing I would miss is the clear pvc, is that if any benefit?

Both have monitors when it needs cleaning...

Thanks!

 

[jmastron]

So I have been looking at the circupool SWG
I looked into calimar, but the company that sells it has no idea about it. The guy told me on the phone to Google it to find the info i asked

Contrast that with circupool, I got a hour on the phone with someone knowledgeable at discountsaltpool.com

I'm currently deciding between a 55 universal or rj-60. I'm going big because with my current single speed pump, I only run it 4 hours a day.

One thing I don't like about either, is they say below 65 it may not produce chlorine. Here in Tampa Bay there's probably 2-3 months of below 65 water.

Any thoughts or better products?


Universal 55 will cost $1269
Rj-60 will cost 1469

Thanks!

All swg’s have this limitation & will not produce at water temps below 60 degrees. You will need to manually dose when that occurs- it’s usually not that big of a deal as during those times the daily fc loss is generally very low.

I have the Calimar CMARSHA40-3Y, and it generates chlorine all the way down to 50 degF water (it actually reports 2-3 degrees higher than my pool thermometer, which I think is accurate, so down to 48-49 before it says COLD). Hayward Aquarites similarly spec 50 deg, and at least some of the Circupool units are based off that same design. I know some of the Circupool manuals say "very cold temperatures, especially below 65° F", but that's kind of vague wording and seems very high for a cutoff. They may be less efficient at lower temps, but chlorine demand is also a LOT less in the winter, so mine keeps up until it does get below 50 just fine with an hour or so of runtime.

In any case, I've been very happy with the Calimar unit -- I figured it's a commodity item, and for several hundred dollars less (even more difference now) I was willing to gamble on less sales interaction. And so far (2 years in) it's been working great.

 

[Padle]

Thanks, I would have considered calimar if the rep could even answer simple questions, like how many hours is it rated for. It was hard to compare when I didn't know anything about it.

 

[PoolStored]

Considering I don't need to raise the CH for a SWG, and considering cal-hypo is super expensive, it seems cheaper to just get the swg, than raise the calcium some other way.


I'm seriously considering the universal 55. Over time RJ+-60 would be better value, but it would take a long time.

The only cool thing I would miss is the clear pvc, is that if any benefit?

Both have monitors when it needs cleaning...

Raise CH with Calcium Chloride. Get a brand that has a large percentage of CaCl. Like you find "Snow Joe Calcium Chloride," search google for "Snow Joe Calcium Chloride SDS." The SDS will list the ingredients.

We have seen good success with the Circupool. I bought the RJ-60+ because it has 5% increments on the controls. You might ask what the increments on the output are. Some, like the edge series are 12.5%. A lot less fiddling with output if the increments are smaller. I can't find the increments on the universal 55 specs.

No benefit of a clear cell, except it is easier to see if you have any scale.

 

[Padle]

Raise CH with Calcium Chloride. Get a brand that has a large percentage of CaCl. Like you find "Snow Joe Calcium Chloride," search google for "Snow Joe Calcium Chloride SDS." The SDS will list the ingredients.

We have seen good success with the Circupool. I bought the RJ-60+ because it has 5% increments on the controls. You might ask what the increments on the output are. Some, like the edge series are 12.5%. A lot less fiddling with output if the increments are smaller. I can't find the increments on the universal 55 specs.

No benefit of a clear cell, except it is easier to see if you have any scale.

Universal also goes in 5 percent.


Thanks for the lead in the snow joe stuff. So the calcium chloride that's made to melt ice will be safe in a pool correct?

 

[Newdude]

So the calcium chloride that's made to melt ice will be safe in a pool correct?

Calcium Chloride is Calcium Chloride. Check the label for additives like iron. Even if you bought that brand last time, manufacturers change stuff all the time and you don't want to find out the sucky way. The same goes for salt and CYA. You ideally want 100% or pure on the bag somewhere. If not, you want non harmful additives.

 

[Padle]

Just a FYI. Calimar looks a lot cheaper on paper until it all adds up. It's listed at 780 for 60,000 (still no idea about specs as it's not listed anywhere).

After adding it to cart, shipping and taxes, it's $915

Circupool Universal 55 is 1269 now, not shipping md no taxes (to FL)

The difference is not that vast anymore, that I would take the risk.

 

[Padle]

Other question. The main reason for SWG is to save on lugging LC bottles (and some savings, but it takes a few years for the ROI)

I have read some reports on the forum that some people need two gallons of acid after installing SWG. To me that sounds like no savings.

What's the real story with PH rise in a SWG, and how much MA should I expect will be needed in the summer?

 

[PoolStored]

Just a FYI. Calimar looks a lot cheaper on paper until it all adds up. It's listed at 780 for 60,000 (still no idea about specs as it's not listed anywhere).

After adding it to cart, shipping and taxes, it's $915

Circupool Universal 55 is 1269 now, not shipping md no taxes (to FL)

The difference is not that vast anymore, that I would take the risk.

The Calimar has increments of 25%. That will be more fiddling with output than one with 5% increments. It was made by SGS Chlorinators out of Arizona, The Calimar system is a rebranded SGS Wave. SGS went out of business and was taken over by CMP (Custom Molded Products). Pricing on the Calimar brand is a bit more competitive. Some, including @Rancho Cost-a-Lotta had them installed and seem to work fine, but he ended up swapping it out for another system because it doesn't seem to work well with VSP at low speeds. YMMV.

Lots of us have had good luck with Pentair, Circupool, Hayward and Jandy...

I happen to have the Circupool and it has been flawless.

 

[PoolStored]

I have read some reports on the forum that some people need two gallons of acid after installing SWG. To me that sounds like no savings.

What's the real story with PH rise in a SWG, and how much MA should I expect will be needed in the summer?

pH rise is due more to TA.

My pH was 7.4 all season with SWG. Added MA in spring when I opened and in fall when I closed. Didn't need it the rest of the year. NOTE: I do have a solar cover, which reduced CO2 outgassing and pH rise. I keep my TA ~60-70. What will cause pH rise? High TA, low pH, new plaster, aeration (water features), no solar cover. You will find if you let TA lower to 50-80, your pH will rise more slowly, or not at all. It will settle down when TA goes down. It may settle at 7.8, 8.0, even 8.2. If you don't force your pH back down to 7.2 (remember, pH rises faster at low pH), and let it find a good equilibrium with a lower TA, your muriatic additions will be minimal/manageable. Do you have a sense of the TA level of your fill water? Do you have an autofill? Any sense of if you lose more water to evaporation, or you gain water because of rain?

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

+1. Most cases of absurd PH rise come from folks who came from using tabs (with CYA / acid in them). They were used to the PH always being in the low range 7s and try to force it there after and it bounces back with a vengeance. Once they adapt and target SWG friendly PH/TA, it becomes much less of an issue.

Another factor is previous pump runtime. If you only ran a couple hours previously, having to run for 12+ hours for FC production will be a big increase in your aeration. But again, most of it can be mitigated by adapting with it.

Being in FL helps because 50+ inches of PH 5 (ish) rain will help keep the rise at bay.

 

[Padle]

pH rise is due more to TA.

My pH was 7.4 all season with SWG. Added MA in spring when I opened and in fall when I closed. Didn't need it the rest of the year. NOTE: I do have a solar cover, which reduced CO2 outgassing and pH rise. I keep my TA ~60-70. What will cause pH rise? High TA, low pH, new plaster, aeration (water features), no solar cover. You will find if you let TA lower to 50-80, your pH will rise more slowly, or not at all. It will settle down when TA goes down. It may settle at 7.8, 8.0, even 8.2. If you don't force your pH back down to 7.2 (remember, pH rises faster at low pH), and let it find a good equilibrium with a lower TA, your muriatic additions will be minimal/manageable. Do you have a sense of the TA level of your fill water? Do you have an autofill? Any sense of if you lose more water to evaporation, or you gain water because of rain?

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

My TA is high, though I haven't measured it in 3 weeks, it was 110.

I bought the house in the dry season here, and the only time I've had to fill it was when I emptied it to lower the CYA. So my guess is I won't be filling it much, more like emptying it. So I guess the low PH rain water will help.

So far, I've had to add about a cup of MA a week.

So I guess if I get the TA down I should be ok.

 

[PoolStored]

So far, I've had to add about a cup of MA a week.

So I guess if I get the TA down I should be ok.

Cup a week is certainly manageable.

As you continue to maintain pH and lower with MA, TA will come down on its own. Just manage your pH with Muriatic, don't chase TA.

 

[Padle]

I haven't got the SWG yet. Just wanted to make sure, getting the SWG won't make me have to use a gallon a week...

 

[PoolStored]

I haven't got the SWG yet. Just wanted to make sure, getting the SWG won't make me have to use a gallon a week...

Aeration caused by the SWG is not a major contributor to pH rise. Yes, the aeration does cause some pH rise but you would be hard pressed to see it without some very specific equipment capable of measuring small changes in pH. The water coming out of the returns will generally have higher pH as is predicted by the electrolysis equations for the conversion of chloride to chlorine but, by and large, all of that pH rise will eventually go back down once the chlorine has oxidized organics or killed pathogens as those reaction are acidic (lower pH). Your pH goes up because your pool is an open chemical system to the atmosphere where the amount of dissolved CO2 in the water is several times larger than atmospheric CO2 levels. With such a huge difference in concentration, the outgassing of CO2 is easily the greatest source of source pH rise in your pool.

As a result, the real key is what pH and TA you try to maintain. The right combination reduces pH rise to basically zero. The amount of CO2 is determined by the Carbonate Alkalinity and the pH. If the TA is kept low enough and the pH high enough, there will be no pH rise. Also, keeping the CSI close to 0, but somewhat negative, reduces pH rise from plaster.

 

[Mdragger88]

Just a FYI. Calimar looks a lot cheaper on paper until it all adds up. It's listed at 780 for 60,000 (still no idea about specs as it's not listed anywhere).

After adding it to cart, shipping and taxes, it's $915

Circupool Universal 55 is 1269 now, not shipping md no taxes (to FL)

The difference is not that vast anymore, that I would take the risk.

I literally have the calimar in my cart & had sticker shock over the shipping! I just left it there in the hopes there will possibly be a free shipping offer.